Reward Flight 'Dynamic Pricing' Discussion

Old Mar 26, 2018, 5:53 am
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Raffles
I don't think you should look at the US schemes as a model. Those are island-driven. UK members are also using Finnair, Iberia, Aer Lingus, Qatar, RJ, American etc and a BA-only revenue system won't work. You can't get revenue data from partners.
In fact, Lufthansa can't even get revenue data ON ITS OWN TICKETS. Book via a TA and you keep earning miles on the old system. Book direct and you are on the x per Euro model.

The reason is that some airlines like to offer 'charge what you want' deals to travel agents. Emirates, for eg, could offers agents a 1500 business class fare to Bangkok and agrees to hide the pricing data from the customer. The agent COULD charge 1500 but actually if a client asks for a quote and BA is 3k and Thai is 2800 they will offer Emirates for, say, 2500. The agent pockets 1000 profit on the ticket (which, as BA and Thai pay naff all commission the agent will bust a gut to make the customer choose).

Under this system, Emirates has no idea how much the TA charged and could not offer airline miles based on revenue on the ticket.
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 6:34 am
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Originally Posted by etiene
I suspect the point was that the vast majority of members don't - when you don't leave the US much/at all, staying within the preferred airline is much more important.
I see now. Fair enough!
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 6:37 am
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@Raffles - I suspect (?) that these sort of deals (eg the 1500 J class you mention) are only offered to high-producing, trusted agents.

There was a time when many airlines would impose MSP /Minimum Sell Price restrictions within their agency contracts, primarily as a means of protecting their less influential, less powerful agents ; their own internal distribution channels ; and their public image. This did not however prevent an airline offering some extremely attractive nett fares - with the agent then free to determine its own mark-up - subject to any MSP, of course.

But perhaps with the ever-increasing power & value of the OTAs, such restrictions have become less common. Feel free to put me right - this is far more your area of expertise/knowledge than mine !
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 8:01 am
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Originally Posted by SuperstarDJ
Thanks for this info. It sounds like there is a little common sense in the air at BA towers. Fingers crossed they don't destroy the programme, or I'm out!
BA wants to play out of the DL playbook on this one, and that means the loyalty program currency will be destroyed for most customers interested in redeeming awards from the program. I wouldn’t be surprised if the pain hits customers even before BA’s IT gets BAEC to where BA management want it to be to devalue the loyalty program currency.

When airline programs turn out to be little more than elite status programs with a minuscule cash-back-equivalent element, for most customers, the program’s coffin being delivered earlier would have been a mercy.
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 8:21 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Raffles
You can't get revenue data from partners.
You can, but it has to go through revenue accounting and that takes time and effort.
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 8:36 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder







BA wants to play out of the DL playbook on this one, and that means the loyalty program currency will be destroyed for most customers interested in redeeming awards from the program. I wouldnt be surprised if the pain hits customers even before BAs IT gets BAEC to where BA management want it to be to devalue the loyalty program currency.




When airline programs turn out to be little more than elite status programs with a minuscule cash-back-equivalent element, for most customers, the programs coffin being delivered earlier would have been a mercy.
Sadly I think youre right - agree that the sooner we know, the better. They control the currency and the club, so we have no say. Id rather know now in order to take my business elsewhere in some cases.

I wonder what percentage of premium cabin flyers are loyal to BA for the Exec club benefits vs those using it for transport only? Those on Flyertalk a a fairly unique breed, yet at the same time I do know a lot of people who are reasonably avid Avios collectors.

I found myself in my early 20s quickly realising that I should avoid Virgin /other airlines etc and stick to BA to maximise my benefits. If they tinker with it all too much, they will lose at least some of my J travel.

While I think the changes will be worse for everyone, I still think it will be those who collect points from means other than flying that will be hit even more. Im sure thats what the airline would want - to look after their premium cabin customers the most....

BA are then into a game of how much they can rely on their LHR dominance to retain custom with loyalty scheme sensitive flyers.

If they spoil the benefits too much, I can see a scenario where Im using them mainly for short haul as there will be little point in collecting tier points and Avios. I appreciate a lot of business travellers may just get their tickets bought through their company, and itll probably not change for many of them.

My long haul J travel will then be with whoever offers the best price / product at the time. Some of my colleagues are already fed up with BA and mix their travel with other carriers, meanwhile Im left standing by BA due to the exec club!
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 9:03 am
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I still remain convinced that the big change is going to be a unified management system, at least on the back end.

Aer Lingus essentially being a skin on avios.com would seem to be a pretty important first indicator in my mind. I think they will keep the front ends separate (why introduce a new IB card in the US, after all) but fully merge the back end and just have unified redemption rates and status opportunities among all avios programs.
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 9:47 am
  #68  
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My long haul J travel will then be with whoever offers the best price / product at the time.
100 % agree with you there. If Exec club is torn to shreds, before a devaluation (if there is one) I will just blow all my remaining points as far out as I can plan and then just not bother collecting for any airline at all anymore and just book what works best for my plans or destination.
Points collecting used to be fun in a way, now its just harder and harder and less attractive to be loyal and collect.
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 9:56 am
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I sympathise. I'm lucky enough to have lived and travelled in the good old days of FFP's, in the 80's and 90's, when free rewards were free, numerous free upgrades, take a companion free across the pond, and many ridiculous bonus opportunities . I really must dig out all my old FFP documentation which I held on to with all US carriers, to remind me of just how lucky many of us were.
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 10:49 am
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Originally Posted by mike turnbull
I sympathise. I'm lucky enough to have lived and travelled in the good old days of FFP's, in the 80's and 90's, when free rewards were free, numerous free upgrades, take a companion free across the pond, and many ridiculous bonus opportunities . I really must dig out all my old FFP documentation which I held on to with all US carriers, to remind me of just how lucky many of us were.
If governments have the interests of their public in mind, they could and would rescind a collection of the waivers and favors granted to the legacy major airlines and thereby let competition provide for improved outcomes for airline loyalty program customers. But as I am neither a prince/princess of a church nor a person of blind faith, I expect the airlines will continue to be allowed by government to engage in a rat race to the bottom that serves not customers in the main but enriches the management figures of companies and their fickle, demanding shareholders seeking a quick jolly regardless of the longer term impact..
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Old Mar 27, 2018, 12:06 am
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Redemption and earning changes per The Points Guy

https://thepointsguy.com/news/britis...00000186418420

Suggests avios linked to date paid and redemptions based on a money value of avois.

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Old Mar 27, 2018, 12:11 am
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That article makes some wild assumptions, Mr Cruzs interview is being discussed in this topic:
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Old Mar 27, 2018, 12:12 am
  #73  
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I think this is a more informative opinion on the matter.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2018/0...xecutive-club/
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Old Mar 27, 2018, 2:00 am
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Very interesting thread I only found after my Ponts Guy post was moved.

I do wonder what impact loyalty schemes really have.

Many will be on company tickets. I used to be with RBS. BA group deal no choice.

What did used used to happen at all levels was additional travel when close to the end of your membership year to get / keep status so I suppose there is a behaviorccjange c

If you pay for your own travel then all thing being equal you choose the airline with whom you are a loyalty member ( assuming you value the scheme ). But how often are all things equal ? On a personal point of view depending on direction of travel I will probably go Emirates. Would I pay a premium to travel on ba simply due to the loyalty scheme? Maybe if I particularly needed the avios or I was close to the next tier , but even then the premium I would bear is low. Helpfully ba often have the business class deals so they win out on price - certainly to the Americas.

Nearly all full service airlines have a scheme and I appreciate that where people can excercise a choice this may give marginal benefit. I also appreciate no airline is really that likely to abandon a scheme to see what happens !
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Old Mar 27, 2018, 3:03 am
  #75  
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Originally Posted by jeremyBA
Very interesting thread I only found after my Ponts Guy post was moved. !
What am I doing wrong?! You live in London, work for a bank, but read a US FF site and not the one specifically aimed at bankers living in London ....!
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