Reward Flight 'Dynamic Pricing' Discussion
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,865
The reason is that some airlines like to offer 'charge what you want' deals to travel agents. Emirates, for eg, could offers agents a 1500 business class fare to Bangkok and agrees to hide the pricing data from the customer. The agent COULD charge 1500 but actually if a client asks for a quote and BA is 3k and Thai is 2800 they will offer Emirates for, say, 2500. The agent pockets 1000 profit on the ticket (which, as BA and Thai pay naff all commission the agent will bust a gut to make the customer choose).
Under this system, Emirates has no idea how much the TA charged and could not offer airline miles based on revenue on the ticket.
#62
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Platinum; Hilton Gold, IHG Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Wyndham Diamond
Posts: 783
#63
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,382
@Raffles - I suspect (?) that these sort of deals (eg the 1500 J class you mention) are only offered to high-producing, trusted agents.
There was a time when many airlines would impose MSP /Minimum Sell Price restrictions within their agency contracts, primarily as a means of protecting their less influential, less powerful agents ; their own internal distribution channels ; and their public image. This did not however prevent an airline offering some extremely attractive nett fares - with the agent then free to determine its own mark-up - subject to any MSP, of course.
But perhaps with the ever-increasing power & value of the OTAs, such restrictions have become less common. Feel free to put me right - this is far more your area of expertise/knowledge than mine !
There was a time when many airlines would impose MSP /Minimum Sell Price restrictions within their agency contracts, primarily as a means of protecting their less influential, less powerful agents ; their own internal distribution channels ; and their public image. This did not however prevent an airline offering some extremely attractive nett fares - with the agent then free to determine its own mark-up - subject to any MSP, of course.
But perhaps with the ever-increasing power & value of the OTAs, such restrictions have become less common. Feel free to put me right - this is far more your area of expertise/knowledge than mine !
#64
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
When airline programs turn out to be little more than elite status programs with a minuscule cash-back-equivalent element, for most customers, the program’s coffin being delivered earlier would have been a mercy.
#66
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: BA GGL/CCR/GFL
Posts: 103
BA wants to play out of the DL playbook on this one, and that means the loyalty program currency will be destroyed for most customers interested in redeeming awards from the program. I wouldnt be surprised if the pain hits customers even before BAs IT gets BAEC to where BA management want it to be to devalue the loyalty program currency.
When airline programs turn out to be little more than elite status programs with a minuscule cash-back-equivalent element, for most customers, the programs coffin being delivered earlier would have been a mercy.
I wonder what percentage of premium cabin flyers are loyal to BA for the Exec club benefits vs those using it for transport only? Those on Flyertalk a a fairly unique breed, yet at the same time I do know a lot of people who are reasonably avid Avios collectors.
I found myself in my early 20s quickly realising that I should avoid Virgin /other airlines etc and stick to BA to maximise my benefits. If they tinker with it all too much, they will lose at least some of my J travel.
While I think the changes will be worse for everyone, I still think it will be those who collect points from means other than flying that will be hit even more. Im sure thats what the airline would want - to look after their premium cabin customers the most....
BA are then into a game of how much they can rely on their LHR dominance to retain custom with loyalty scheme sensitive flyers.
If they spoil the benefits too much, I can see a scenario where Im using them mainly for short haul as there will be little point in collecting tier points and Avios. I appreciate a lot of business travellers may just get their tickets bought through their company, and itll probably not change for many of them.
My long haul J travel will then be with whoever offers the best price / product at the time. Some of my colleagues are already fed up with BA and mix their travel with other carriers, meanwhile Im left standing by BA due to the exec club!
#67
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAD
Programs: IB+, BAEC
Posts: 3,098
I still remain convinced that the big change is going to be a unified management system, at least on the back end.
Aer Lingus essentially being a skin on avios.com would seem to be a pretty important first indicator in my mind. I think they will keep the front ends separate (why introduce a new IB card in the US, after all) but fully merge the back end and just have unified redemption rates and status opportunities among all avios programs.
Aer Lingus essentially being a skin on avios.com would seem to be a pretty important first indicator in my mind. I think they will keep the front ends separate (why introduce a new IB card in the US, after all) but fully merge the back end and just have unified redemption rates and status opportunities among all avios programs.
#68
formerly southsidesilver
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Diego,CA
Programs: BA Gold, UA Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 996
My long haul J travel will then be with whoever offers the best price / product at the time.
Points collecting used to be fun in a way, now its just harder and harder and less attractive to be loyal and collect.
#69
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: South Coast, UK
Programs: Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 2,069
I sympathise. I'm lucky enough to have lived and travelled in the good old days of FFP's, in the 80's and 90's, when free rewards were free, numerous free upgrades, take a companion free across the pond, and many ridiculous bonus opportunities . I really must dig out all my old FFP documentation which I held on to with all US carriers, to remind me of just how lucky many of us were.
#70
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I sympathise. I'm lucky enough to have lived and travelled in the good old days of FFP's, in the 80's and 90's, when free rewards were free, numerous free upgrades, take a companion free across the pond, and many ridiculous bonus opportunities . I really must dig out all my old FFP documentation which I held on to with all US carriers, to remind me of just how lucky many of us were.
#71
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London
Programs: Ba Silver ( for now!)
Posts: 768
Redemption and earning changes per The Points Guy
https://thepointsguy.com/news/britis...00000186418420
Suggests avios linked to date paid and redemptions based on a money value of avois.
Suggests avios linked to date paid and redemptions based on a money value of avois.
#72
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,882
That article makes some wild assumptions, Mr Cruzs interview is being discussed in this topic:
#73
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Cumbria
Programs: BAEC GGL/CCR, Hilton Diamond, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 4,510
I think this is a more informative opinion on the matter.
https://www.headforpoints.com/2018/0...xecutive-club/
https://www.headforpoints.com/2018/0...xecutive-club/
#74
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London
Programs: Ba Silver ( for now!)
Posts: 768
Very interesting thread I only found after my Ponts Guy post was moved.
I do wonder what impact loyalty schemes really have.
Many will be on company tickets. I used to be with RBS. BA group deal no choice.
What did used used to happen at all levels was additional travel when close to the end of your membership year to get / keep status so I suppose there is a behaviorccjange c
If you pay for your own travel then all thing being equal you choose the airline with whom you are a loyalty member ( assuming you value the scheme ). But how often are all things equal ? On a personal point of view depending on direction of travel I will probably go Emirates. Would I pay a premium to travel on ba simply due to the loyalty scheme? Maybe if I particularly needed the avios or I was close to the next tier , but even then the premium I would bear is low. Helpfully ba often have the business class deals so they win out on price - certainly to the Americas.
Nearly all full service airlines have a scheme and I appreciate that where people can excercise a choice this may give marginal benefit. I also appreciate no airline is really that likely to abandon a scheme to see what happens !
I do wonder what impact loyalty schemes really have.
Many will be on company tickets. I used to be with RBS. BA group deal no choice.
What did used used to happen at all levels was additional travel when close to the end of your membership year to get / keep status so I suppose there is a behaviorccjange c
If you pay for your own travel then all thing being equal you choose the airline with whom you are a loyalty member ( assuming you value the scheme ). But how often are all things equal ? On a personal point of view depending on direction of travel I will probably go Emirates. Would I pay a premium to travel on ba simply due to the loyalty scheme? Maybe if I particularly needed the avios or I was close to the next tier , but even then the premium I would bear is low. Helpfully ba often have the business class deals so they win out on price - certainly to the Americas.
Nearly all full service airlines have a scheme and I appreciate that where people can excercise a choice this may give marginal benefit. I also appreciate no airline is really that likely to abandon a scheme to see what happens !
#75