BSL tomorrow morning......can't find passport 😕
Oct 23, 2017, 11:36 am
#63
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,922
... But does it state that you can move between countries without any official identification document!? That's the essential point. Every citizen of every free nation has the right to come and go as they please, but you would end up in an interrogation room if you returned without any proof of citizenship.
Oct 23, 2017, 12:00 pm
#65
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 410
The provisions of Article 5 (specially, the important section 4) regulate and only apply for EU citizens or family members entering the Schengen Area.
Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.
An EU citizen travelling through the Schengen Area DOES NOT requiere any form of identification. The bus / train / airlines company may require it and some member states ask you to carry and ID at any time, but this not affect your rights of movement.
Oct 23, 2017, 12:06 pm
#66
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,922
Freedom of movement and residence is regulated through Article 3 of the very same directive.
The provisions of Article 5 (specially, the important section 4) regulate and only apply for EU citizens or family members entering the Schengen Area.
Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.
An EU citizen travelling through the Schengen Area DOES NOT requiere any form of identification. The bus / train / airlines company may require it and some member states ask you to carry and ID at any time, but this not affect your rights of movement.
The provisions of Article 5 (specially, the important section 4) regulate and only apply for EU citizens or family members entering the Schengen Area.
Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.
An EU citizen travelling through the Schengen Area DOES NOT requiere any form of identification. The bus / train / airlines company may require it and some member states ask you to carry and ID at any time, but this not affect your rights of movement.
Oct 23, 2017, 12:51 pm
#67
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,144
It's been an interesting discussion, with some occasional opposing views. May I please do a bid from my end, which may possibly help someone.
1. Buy one of these for Home. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sentry-Safe...Fireproof+safe
That is the ONE thing one of us will grab when leaving the house in an emergency. It contains passports, Birth/Marriage certificates and a listing of all the various Insurances [and contact numbers] as well as precious family documents. The 'newer' model seems even better, but I regard either as valuable insurance AND a place where I know I'm going to find those critical documents.
2. Travel Wallet. No, not a passport cover, but something that holds all the essential travel documents. Passports, BPs, currency, membership cards, ESTA receipt etc.. Fat and heavy ... not easily forgotten. I'm obsessive about keeping track of where the bloody great lump is! When travelling, it lives in my backpack, and the first thing to go into a safe when we arrive.
3. Forgetting Wallet. At OLCI, the 'Wallet' syndrome kicks in. Whether printing BPs or not, that's the moment the Wallet goes in my Backpack, to sleep next to me! And iWife checks constantly anyway
4. Carrying ID. Never been anywhere where I needed to carry my Passport ... I would hate to have to do that, it's too precious to be vulnerable to a pickpocket [separate subject]. My JER Driving Licence seems to both suffice and confuse in equal measure!
Perhaps my phobia stems from the penalties of losing my RAF Identity Card (Form 1250)?
1. Buy one of these for Home. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sentry-Safe...Fireproof+safe
That is the ONE thing one of us will grab when leaving the house in an emergency. It contains passports, Birth/Marriage certificates and a listing of all the various Insurances [and contact numbers] as well as precious family documents. The 'newer' model seems even better, but I regard either as valuable insurance AND a place where I know I'm going to find those critical documents.
2. Travel Wallet. No, not a passport cover, but something that holds all the essential travel documents. Passports, BPs, currency, membership cards, ESTA receipt etc.. Fat and heavy ... not easily forgotten. I'm obsessive about keeping track of where the bloody great lump is! When travelling, it lives in my backpack, and the first thing to go into a safe when we arrive.
3. Forgetting Wallet. At OLCI, the 'Wallet' syndrome kicks in. Whether printing BPs or not, that's the moment the Wallet goes in my Backpack, to sleep next to me! And iWife checks constantly anyway
4. Carrying ID. Never been anywhere where I needed to carry my Passport ... I would hate to have to do that, it's too precious to be vulnerable to a pickpocket [separate subject]. My JER Driving Licence seems to both suffice and confuse in equal measure!
Perhaps my phobia stems from the penalties of losing my RAF Identity Card (Form 1250)?
Last edited by T8191; Oct 23, 2017 at 12:58 pm
Oct 23, 2017, 1:00 pm
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,511
I regard that as too risky since this looks like it could live in multiple places. Leaving passports in a room safe is (if I recall) the second most common reason why people lose them, after leaving them in an airport location, more risky than losing them somewhere in the house and the washing machine in 4th place.
I keep my passports in one, and only place, in one location in the CWS travel bag which is almost always within 5 metres of me 24 hours a day; my carte d'identité is kept at home as a backup. In 40 years of constant travel I have never lost or not been able to locate my passports.
I keep my passports in one, and only place, in one location in the CWS travel bag which is almost always within 5 metres of me 24 hours a day; my carte d'identité is kept at home as a backup. In 40 years of constant travel I have never lost or not been able to locate my passports.
Touch wood, I have never lost or misplaced my passport to date though the rain messed it up big time for me once (sudden and torrential Chicago rain!)
Oct 23, 2017, 1:03 pm
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,511
Sorry to hear the little bugger did not miraculously reappear on time. Unfortunately, there is absolutely no way you would get the TPs/Avios for a flight that you did not fly, the only hope was being allowed to change to a later date (with or without a fee).
Oct 23, 2017, 1:05 pm
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
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Posts: 14,209
I think the practical issue with trying to invoke one’s rights under the article without a passport, national ID card, or other such document is getting past a gate agent without same.
Oct 23, 2017, 1:13 pm
#71
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 410
Well, too bad.
The regulation that covers the travel through Schengen is 2016/399.
REGULATION (EU) 2016/399 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 9 March 2016 on a Union Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders (Schengenm Borders Code).
And Article 22 clearly specifies,
Article 22 - Crossing internal borders
Internal borders may be crossed at any point without a border check on persons, irrespective of their nationality, being carried out.
So Article 5, Directive 2004/38/EC, only affects entries at a external Schengen border, which is further expanded in Articles 5-14 of Regulation 2016/399.
The regulation that covers the travel through Schengen is 2016/399.
REGULATION (EU) 2016/399 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 9 March 2016 on a Union Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders (Schengenm Borders Code).
And Article 22 clearly specifies,
Article 22 - Crossing internal borders
Internal borders may be crossed at any point without a border check on persons, irrespective of their nationality, being carried out.
So Article 5, Directive 2004/38/EC, only affects entries at a external Schengen border, which is further expanded in Articles 5-14 of Regulation 2016/399.
Oct 23, 2017, 1:18 pm
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Well, too bad.
The regulation that covers the travel through Schengen is 2016/399.
REGULATION (EU) 2016/399 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 9 March 2016 on a Union Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders (Schengenm Borders Code).
And Article 22 clearly specifies,
Article 22 - Crossing internal borders
Internal borders may be crossed at any point without a border check on persons, irrespective of their nationality, being carried out.
So Article 5, Directive 2004/38/EC, only affects entries at a external Schengen border, which is further expanded in Articles 5-14 of Regulation 2016/399.
The regulation that covers the travel through Schengen is 2016/399.
REGULATION (EU) 2016/399 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 9 March 2016 on a Union Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders (Schengenm Borders Code).
And Article 22 clearly specifies,
Article 22 - Crossing internal borders
Internal borders may be crossed at any point without a border check on persons, irrespective of their nationality, being carried out.
So Article 5, Directive 2004/38/EC, only affects entries at a external Schengen border, which is further expanded in Articles 5-14 of Regulation 2016/399.
Oct 23, 2017, 1:23 pm
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,144
Not being in the EU here, despite what they put on our Passport covers, we will take our passports anyway
EUROPEAN UNION
BRITISH ISLANDS
BAILIWICK OF JERSEY
BRITISH ISLANDS
BAILIWICK OF JERSEY
Oct 23, 2017, 1:46 pm
#74
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2017
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 325
Hypothetically, for those UK citizens who DID get an ID card when they were trialled (2009/10ish?) and have kept hold of it, would/could it perhaps be of benefit in this situation?
Oct 23, 2017, 1:50 pm
#75
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,405
Identity cards were scrapped in 2011 - they’re no longer valid and you can’t use them as proof of identify.
You don’t have to return your identity card. You should destroy it or keep it in a safe place.
The fee you paid won’t be refunded.
The government securely destroyed the personal details of everyone who had an identity card.
You can’t use your identity card for travel. Use your passport instead. Contact the British embassy if you’re abroad without a passport.
You don’t have to return your identity card. You should destroy it or keep it in a safe place.
The fee you paid won’t be refunded.
The government securely destroyed the personal details of everyone who had an identity card.
You can’t use your identity card for travel. Use your passport instead. Contact the British embassy if you’re abroad without a passport.
Seems pretty clear to me. OT: Are you the LordBuckethead or just an imitator?