AMS-LHR BA plane engine problem 12/9/17
Sep 14, 2017, 2:33 am
#31
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Avherald states (may not be 100% accurate) that the second engine failure was a failure, no mention of bird strike which the pilots certainly would have noticed.
Let's see the CAA report, I am assuming BA won't publish their own internal report publicly.
It may take a while to have the final report from CAA.
Let's see the CAA report, I am assuming BA won't publish their own internal report publicly.
It may take a while to have the final report from CAA.
The reason the CAA final report may take some time is that they will refrain from making wild assumptions and investigate the matter properly.
Sep 14, 2017, 2:42 am
#32
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
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Oh, the irony:
Always amuses me how these threads flame up so quickly (excuse pun).
This is an internet chat room and of course people will debate the probabilities. In this case it seems an engine suffered a bird strike on landing, was delayed 4 hours to be cleaned out, then failed on take off on next flight.
Of course it may just be a remarkable coincidence and extreme bad luck for BA. Who knows if we will ever find out.
As for the rest of it, and the stories of passengers being left to fend for themselves, fairly typical these days and isn't that par for low cost operators? Perhaps BA will try and shave a few quid off travellers hotel bills to save a bit of cash.
This is an internet chat room and of course people will debate the probabilities. In this case it seems an engine suffered a bird strike on landing, was delayed 4 hours to be cleaned out, then failed on take off on next flight.
Of course it may just be a remarkable coincidence and extreme bad luck for BA. Who knows if we will ever find out.
As for the rest of it, and the stories of passengers being left to fend for themselves, fairly typical these days and isn't that par for low cost operators? Perhaps BA will try and shave a few quid off travellers hotel bills to save a bit of cash.
Sep 14, 2017, 3:02 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,190
The CAA doesn't get that involved. If the AAIB investigated I would be suprised. There will be an ASR filled under the Mandatory Occurrence Reporting policy that gets automatically sent to the CAA, but unless there is anything execptional with regards to this (and genuinely it initially appears not) then an internal report will be all that is conducted. As an aside the IAE V2500 engines are renouned for surge and stalls. Most comonally before a series of upgrades where surges when reducing thrust from the take off to climb setting, but there were also plenty of cases at take off setting. There was a noticeable dip in occurances but these have been on the up again, albeit not in the same numbers over previous years (10-15 years ago).
So maybe the two 'events' are related, or perhaps not. Someone mentioned tooling being left earlier on. There would have been a much louder bang far sooner if that was the case.
BA and IAE will be very keen to find out what happened. The last time I can recall the AAIB or CAA getting involed in straight forward engine issues was during a spate of RR trent D-duct sereration issues. There is a famous or semi-famous shot of a maylasian 777 suffering a seperation, totally unnoticed by that crew iirc apart from slightly hightened vibration read outs that stayed in limits for the remainder of that flight.
As an aside the A320 tells the crew they have had an engine stall as does the 787. In Boeing parlance they prefer the term Surge. The 777 does not yet have that ability, it is up to the crew to diagnose.
If any subsequent report to the CAA shows a more systematic problem orndesign fault, then they become more involved.
As for the lackluster ground response, we are told you all don't care and that you want low cost at any cost. You want low cost short haul and low cost longhaul or a more exquisit experince at the posher end of the metal/carbon low cost tube. So having any ground staff must be a luxury posh benefit. In anycase LHR will be manned by machines soon, so better get used to the whole "low cost do it yourself whilst pretending to yourself you purchased a ticket for a more premium Experince." IAG's mantra is 'low cost at anycost'. Share holder divident and ROIC are kings, or atleast that is how it bow looks to me. But what do I know? I'm just told what my opinion must be 3 times a day in email
So maybe the two 'events' are related, or perhaps not. Someone mentioned tooling being left earlier on. There would have been a much louder bang far sooner if that was the case.
BA and IAE will be very keen to find out what happened. The last time I can recall the AAIB or CAA getting involed in straight forward engine issues was during a spate of RR trent D-duct sereration issues. There is a famous or semi-famous shot of a maylasian 777 suffering a seperation, totally unnoticed by that crew iirc apart from slightly hightened vibration read outs that stayed in limits for the remainder of that flight.
As an aside the A320 tells the crew they have had an engine stall as does the 787. In Boeing parlance they prefer the term Surge. The 777 does not yet have that ability, it is up to the crew to diagnose.
If any subsequent report to the CAA shows a more systematic problem orndesign fault, then they become more involved.
As for the lackluster ground response, we are told you all don't care and that you want low cost at any cost. You want low cost short haul and low cost longhaul or a more exquisit experince at the posher end of the metal/carbon low cost tube. So having any ground staff must be a luxury posh benefit. In anycase LHR will be manned by machines soon, so better get used to the whole "low cost do it yourself whilst pretending to yourself you purchased a ticket for a more premium Experince." IAG's mantra is 'low cost at anycost'. Share holder divident and ROIC are kings, or atleast that is how it bow looks to me. But what do I know? I'm just told what my opinion must be 3 times a day in email
Sep 14, 2017, 3:07 am
#34
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I don't see any irony.
On the ORD thread the usual suspects were quick to pile in and downplay the whole thing, no fire happened, minor incident etc etc notwithstanding the reports from people onboard during what was clearly a stressful incident for passengers.
In this case the minute it is suggested the incidents might be related people are accused of wild accusations, to a point where even a moderator is made a point about us being able to discuss the probabilities.
To me there is a difference between reaching a judgement and debating what may or may not have happened. We all know investigations will happen and the final cause established.
I do sense that every thread these days has to be given a defensive spin, even the EU261 discussions where we are asked to believe increasingly bizarre stories as to why BA is denying people their redress. I wonder if here people were offered their duty of care and advised of their right? Or will this be another case where BA will put forward about 3 different excuses which some posters consider plausible before the inevitable capsize?
On the ORD thread the usual suspects were quick to pile in and downplay the whole thing, no fire happened, minor incident etc etc notwithstanding the reports from people onboard during what was clearly a stressful incident for passengers.
In this case the minute it is suggested the incidents might be related people are accused of wild accusations, to a point where even a moderator is made a point about us being able to discuss the probabilities.
To me there is a difference between reaching a judgement and debating what may or may not have happened. We all know investigations will happen and the final cause established.
I do sense that every thread these days has to be given a defensive spin, even the EU261 discussions where we are asked to believe increasingly bizarre stories as to why BA is denying people their redress. I wonder if here people were offered their duty of care and advised of their right? Or will this be another case where BA will put forward about 3 different excuses which some posters consider plausible before the inevitable capsize?
Sep 14, 2017, 3:17 am
#35
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 532
For those waiting for a report, it is highly unlikely that anything further will end up in the public domain unless BA chooses to put it there. BA will do something for internal use but there is no requirement on any government agency to do a public investigation. Of course the Dutch may choose to do an investigation as the event happened there but they probably won't. Following the ICAO and EU definitions it is neither an accident nor a serious incident.
The only reason for looking at it would be the slightly unusual birdstrike - inspection - failure. So perhaps adding to the stock of knowledge about what damage is and isn't detectable in real world environments.
The only reason for looking at it would be the slightly unusual birdstrike - inspection - failure. So perhaps adding to the stock of knowledge about what damage is and isn't detectable in real world environments.
Sep 14, 2017, 3:57 am
#36
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
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Sep 14, 2017, 4:15 am
#37
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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I made the mistake of watching that recent TV programme where a bunch of teenagers were training to be easyJet pilots (not sure this was an entirely reassuring process, but never mind). One lass on there was shown trying to avoid the poor dicky birds, which she could clearly see, whereas her training captain effectively said - and I paraphrase - "oh just mow them down, this is no time to be an animal lover!"
Sep 14, 2017, 4:41 am
#39
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,271
The CAA's safety Group do monitor MORs, in some cases very closely, and both the airframe manuf and the engine manuf will want and need to know the detail.
It is by paying attention to the detail that the Safety/Engineering bods keep Aviation safe for us slf.
It is by paying attention to the detail that the Safety/Engineering bods keep Aviation safe for us slf.
Sep 14, 2017, 4:57 am
#40
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 61
FWIW, even if they didn't have any ground-staff, BA likely had mobile numbers for 90%+ of the passengers - they're happy to push surveys down this route, why not communications when stuff goes wrong? Also not a huge lift to give your social media team a heads-up to prioritise speaking with people who've come off a flight like this. Both of which would literally cost the airline nothing.
Sep 14, 2017, 5:03 am
#42
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Not sure how these folks are bullies. They have just had a sizeable delay, followed by a traumatic flight with loud bangs, sparking engines and an emergency landing - to be meet with zero support or information. Meanwhile BA's twitter account was ignoring them and responding to non-time sensitive messages from 8hours previously. I think given the circumstances they are somewhat restrained.
FWIW, even if they didn't have any ground-staff, BA likely had mobile numbers for 90%+ of the passengers - they're happy to push surveys down this route, why not communications when stuff goes wrong? Also not a huge lift to give your social media team a heads-up to prioritise speaking with people who've come off a flight like this. Both of which would literally cost the airline nothing.
FWIW, even if they didn't have any ground-staff, BA likely had mobile numbers for 90%+ of the passengers - they're happy to push surveys down this route, why not communications when stuff goes wrong? Also not a huge lift to give your social media team a heads-up to prioritise speaking with people who've come off a flight like this. Both of which would literally cost the airline nothing.