BA seeks to close NAPS pension scheme
#31
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 489
I think if I was sitting in NAPs right now, I'd want to close the scheme for future accrual! Might as well lock in the benefits now rather than risk the whole thing imploding
#32
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Contributions to the deficit are clearly reported in BA's annual reports. For example £573m in 2016 report, £302m the year before.
I think if I was sitting in NAPs right now, I'd want to close the scheme for future accrual! Might as well lock in the benefits now rather than risk the whole thing imploding
I think if I was sitting in NAPs right now, I'd want to close the scheme for future accrual! Might as well lock in the benefits now rather than risk the whole thing imploding
#34
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,696
EDIT: for example I note the 2016 accounts show (in £m)
- Employer deficit funding - regular 221.0
- Employer deficit funding – cash sweep 227.3
Last edited by KARFA; Sep 8, 2017 at 8:37 am
#35
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,079
I took mine and ran. It was the best day's work I did since I had a couple having Ugandan Relations (that dates me) and I cooled him down with some well applied ice - once she'd fallen off. I simply can't tell the whole story as there are clearly children watching. Unless you want me to that is.
HIDDY the actuaries have a lot to answer for the Pension Fund was not a Maxwell Situation - the Good Time managment could not get near it. So was I told by someone who should know.
HIDDY the actuaries have a lot to answer for the Pension Fund was not a Maxwell Situation - the Good Time managment could not get near it. So was I told by someone who should know.
#36
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Aberdeen
Programs: BA Gold, Flying Blue Plat, UA Silver, Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime, Hilton Diamond, IHG Gold Ambassador
Posts: 531
I took mine and ran. It was the best day's work I did since I had a couple having Ugandan Relations (that dates me) and I cooled him down with some well applied ice - once she'd fallen off. I simply can't tell the whole story as there are clearly children watching. Unless you want me to that is.
HIDDY the actuaries have a lot to answer for the Pension Fund was not a Maxwell Situation - the Good Time managment could not get near it. So was I told by someone who should know.
HIDDY the actuaries have a lot to answer for the Pension Fund was not a Maxwell Situation - the Good Time managment could not get near it. So was I told by someone who should know.
#37
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: KSA
Programs: BA LTG, UA Gold, EK Silver, Hilton LT Diamond, Marriott LT Titanium, IHG Plat
Posts: 1,240
BA are way late in closing this so the people who are still in it should not go on strike but be immensely grateful BA have kept this going as long as they have (one of my ex employers shut theirs 20 years ago).All this talk of a strike regarding this would be short sighted; BA do after all have to be around to pay the liabilities.
If you are over 50 in this scheme, with long term interest rates being what they are, you should definitely get a valuation as recent changes in legislation have given much more flexibility with what you can do + the potential ability to pass on pension pots etc. A lot of people in defined benefit schemes also don't realize that if they die before they take their pension then they (the Estate) might only get back contributions paid in rather than the potentially much larger pension pot value.
As stated, take proper professional advice before doing anything with your pension.
If you are over 50 in this scheme, with long term interest rates being what they are, you should definitely get a valuation as recent changes in legislation have given much more flexibility with what you can do + the potential ability to pass on pension pots etc. A lot of people in defined benefit schemes also don't realize that if they die before they take their pension then they (the Estate) might only get back contributions paid in rather than the potentially much larger pension pot value.
As stated, take proper professional advice before doing anything with your pension.
#38
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Aren't deficit reduction payments by BA reported in the NAPS annual accounts on this site? https://www.mybapension.com/naps/documents/index
EDIT: for example I note the 2016 accounts show (in £m)
- Employer deficit funding - regular 221.0
- Employer deficit funding – cash sweep 227.3
EDIT: for example I note the 2016 accounts show (in £m)
- Employer deficit funding - regular 221.0
- Employer deficit funding – cash sweep 227.3
#39
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
BA are way late in closing this so the people who are still in it should not go on strike but be immensely grateful BA have kept this going as long as they have (one of my ex employers shut theirs 20 years ago).All this talk of a strike regarding this would be short sighted; BA do after all have to be around to pay the liabilities.
- Increased the pension age
- lowered the accrual rate
- Capped pensionable pay
- Lowered the cap on pension growth
Staff have every right to look at taking action on these further changes. What other companies have already done is completely irrelevant and no-one should be "immensely grateful" to an employer that meets their contractual obligations.
#40
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BHD
Programs: BAEC Gold, Radisson VIP, Hertz Gold, Accor Plat
Posts: 162
BA already made major changes (with member approval) to the scheme 10 years ago when they:
Staff have every right to look at taking action on these further changes. What other companies have already done is completely irrelevant and no-one should be "immensely grateful" to an employer that meets their contractual obligations.
- Increased the pension age
- lowered the accrual rate
- Capped pensionable pay
- Lowered the cap on pension growth
Staff have every right to look at taking action on these further changes. What other companies have already done is completely irrelevant and no-one should be "immensely grateful" to an employer that meets their contractual obligations.
My employer is considering the same changes. Like everything else in life, if pension schemes do not evolve in line with the changing demands placed upon them they will ultimately become extinct. Sometimes life comes at you fast and evolution is no longer an option...like the dinosaurs.
Better to have accruals already made consolidated than risk losing the lot. If BA goes to the wall, NAPS members will be at the back of the queue for compensation.
#41
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,610
I suspect that in reality it's a perk, and it would be the somewhat predictable response of a unionised industry to threaten strike action, rather than be grateful for what has been received over the last 15 - 20 years.
That's gratitude for you
#44
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,046
I would be amazed if membership of the final salary scheme was a contractual entitlement. If it is, don't go on strike go to court.
I suspect that in reality it's a perk, and it would be the somewhat predictable response of a unionised industry to threaten strike action, rather than be grateful for what has been received over the last 15 - 20 years.
That's gratitude for you
I suspect that in reality it's a perk, and it would be the somewhat predictable response of a unionised industry to threaten strike action, rather than be grateful for what has been received over the last 15 - 20 years.
That's gratitude for you
#45
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,210
It's difficult isn't it? On the one hand, I feel that if the company has 'promised' somebody something then they should stick to their bargain; on the other, if it's right that funding the scheme is effectively half a year's profit then that doesn't sound very sustainable. What I don't know from Maria's email is whether BA can save money by plugging the deficit by making tax deductions (ie are they saving a lot in corporation (for example) tax by doing this)?
However BA (and others) got themselves into this position, it wouldn't take much to make this scheme unworkable by the sound of it.
By closing the scheme down at least people in 15 years' time might get something. However unfair it is.
Am I missing something?
However BA (and others) got themselves into this position, it wouldn't take much to make this scheme unworkable by the sound of it.
By closing the scheme down at least people in 15 years' time might get something. However unfair it is.
Am I missing something?