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Another 241 downgrade story - from F - with no [EC261] compo

Another 241 downgrade story - from F - with no [EC261] compo

Old Oct 11, 2017, 7:45 am
  #211  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
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Originally Posted by Disco Volante
By not responding BA adds to the speculation. By responding BA could end it.
Companies don't generally respond to speculation, unless it is to their advantage to do so.

I'm really unsure why some posters are getting their underwear contorted over BA prioritising for downgrade those who will cost them least to remove from the oversold cabin. Doing anything else would be folly.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 7:50 am
  #212  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
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Originally Posted by TabTraveller
Companies don't generally respond to speculation, unless it is to their advantage to do so.

I'm really unsure why some posters are getting their underwear contorted over BA prioritising for downgrade those who will cost them least to remove from the oversold cabin. Doing anything else would be folly.
Absolutely. And if BA could respond by saying this is not happening, it would be strongly to its advantage to do so. Which begs the question...
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 7:51 am
  #213  
 
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Originally Posted by flatlander
BA may not be able to respond in the negative to the accusation that they deliberately downgrade 2-4-1 customers when they don't control all their outstation staff properly. There are plenty of accounts of station managers in some places who believe that 2-4-1 and Avoid customers are inferior to cash customers and openly treat them worse.

BA could state they do not do this, to be followed soon after by another incident of a customer downgraded "because you didn't really pay for your ticket" from the Middle East or another place.

That would only further confirm, in the mind of suspicious customers, that they are duplicitous and inconsistent.
The suggestion is that FLY is doing it. BA can respond to that very simply.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 7:56 am
  #214  
 
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Originally Posted by Disco Volante
The suggestion is that FLY is doing it. BA can respond to that very simply.
Yes, in the same way that BA's DUT will use certain criteria to upgrade passengers in the case of oversales, FLY or some other tool will use other criteria to downgrade passengers where needed.

You can make a reasonable assumption that the cost of the ticket is a pretty big factor in that. Where the cost of a ticket is recorded in the system as nil, you can be fairly confident who is going to be at the top of the downgrade list...
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 8:08 am
  #215  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Originally Posted by Disco Volante
Because BA has had a presence on this forum at least 10 years, and continues to monitor it closely. And because the thread refers to an article on one of the UK's most influential and (and now award winning) travel blogs, whose journalists are invited by BA to BA events. And because between FT and HFP thousands of BA's and Amex's customers are reading this story, and thinking "I wonder if there's anything in this?".

It's rather naive to think BA doesn't have a social media strategy, and isn't aware of what is being said.

By not responding BA adds to the speculation. By responding BA could end it.
And?

There is a difference between "having a presence" or "monitoring it closely" and answering questions from every Tom, Dick and Harry.

There is is also a difference between "having a social media policy" or "being aware of what is being said" and engaging on every thread. I'm sure they are aware of what is said on the Daily Mail website but I don't see them getting involved in every thread there.

Apart from occasional announcements and things like missing Avios BA hasn't engaged on here meaningfully for a long time.

Indeed it was on HfP and Raffles attends BA events. So what? The point of bloggers is to provoke comment as that is what drives traffic to the blog. It doesn't mean BA needs to have an answer for everything.

I can't imagine there are that many people on here worried. There have been what 2 or 3 examples on here and as already pointed out interest on here was such that the thread had been dormant for 6 weeks before you bumped it. Doesn't exactly seem front of mind.

Seriously what are you expecting BA to say here? It is highly unlikely but occasionally it may happen for operational reasons?

If I started a thread along the lines of "will my flight be late" or something similarly speculative would you expect BAA to jump in?
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 8:12 am
  #216  
 
Join Date: May 2013
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Originally Posted by TabTraveller
.
You can make a reasonable assumption that the cost of the ticket is a pretty big factor in that. Where the cost of a ticket is recorded in the system as nil, you can be fairly confident who is going to be at the top of the downgrade list...
Is this a known fact or guesswork/speculation on your part?
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 9:59 am
  #217  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bournemouth
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Hi
Long time lurker first time poster thought Id add my experience, used my 2016 & 2017 241s in August and September respectively for 2 round trips to Orlando without any problems-admittedly only in J class.

Thanks for all tips
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:18 am
  #218  
 
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Originally Posted by Frogdoctor
Hi
Long time lurker first time poster thought Id add my experience, used my 2016 & 2017 241s in August and September respectively for 2 round trips to Orlando without any problems-admittedly only in J class.
I'm glad it worked out well for you.

Overall, downgrades on BA are not that common, so even if they do downgrade Avios and 2-4-1 customers more than cash customers, neither group of customers will experience it often. A less frequent traveller would be unlikely to experience it at all. Some routes are known to have downgrades more often than others, of course, but it is still good to keep the size of the overall problem in perspective.

This doesn't mean BA should downgrade Avios and 2-4-1 customers and particularly not without similar compensation (therefore cost to BA) as a cash customer, but they're not doing it that often to anyone.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:23 am
  #219  
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Originally Posted by Frogdoctor
Hi
Long time lurker first time poster thought Id add my experience, used my 2016 & 2017 241s in August and September respectively for 2 round trips to Orlando without any problems-admittedly only in J class.

Thanks for all tips
Thanks for that Frogdoctor. Let me welcome you to Flyertalk and the BA Board and you have taken that leap from lurking to joining so feel free to chip in as the more the merrier! The information, experiences and advice here is fantastic and quite often the first stop for many a query.

However the BA Forum Dashboard is full of many golden nuggets and a worthwhile read if you haven't already done so.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:43 am
  #220  
 
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Originally Posted by simons1

I can't imagine there are that many people on here worried. There have been what 2 or 3 examples on here and as already pointed out interest on here was such that the thread had been dormant for 6 weeks before you bumped it. Doesn't exactly seem front of mind.
I have two 2-4-1 bookings coming up. One in F LHR-PEK/HKG-LHR and the other J LGW-MRU.

Now Raffles has certainly piqued my interest. I would be pretty miffed if it were to happen on the first flight but I'd probably shrug my shoulders and deal with it on my return. F-J is not the end of the world. However things would not be the same on the latter flight where the choice would be to travel or not as there are few alternative options.

Yes, downgrades happen. Yes, they are infrequent. Yes, the chances of it happening to you are minimal. However that is not what we are talking about here. It is the specific downgrading of Amex 2-4-1 pax. With that in mind, Mr Volante has a quite legitimate point.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 10:45 am
  #221  
 
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I am sure that some one once put up the figures on the no of FT BAEC contributors who were BA staff, or otherwise dependent on BA..............
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 11:43 am
  #222  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I think 2 or 3 examples in the last few months is enough to provoke some concern or request for information on a forum which is related to the issue. I do wonder why there is the need to jump to BA's defence so readily.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 12:43 pm
  #223  
 
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Originally Posted by srbrenna
Yes, downgrades happen. Yes, they are infrequent. Yes, the chances of it happening to you are minimal. However that is not what we are talking about here. It is the specific downgrading of Amex 2-4-1 pax. With that in mind, Mr Volante has a quite legitimate point.
So? If you are sufficiently worried - call or email or tweet BA directly.

What do you think they will say on an internet chat board that they wouldn't tell you directly?

If I am buying goods or services and have a concern I call the supplier. I don't go making anonymous comments in an internet chat room and hope the supplier might see it and decide to respond. Nobody does that with the expectation of being taken seriously.
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 1:04 pm
  #224  
 
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I was concerned about this due to flying with the misses and baby next year to SJC (787), so once we got our reward seats, I tried a a cash booking for 7 people to take it to 9 seats but it wouldn't let me, could only book another 6 seats in the cabin. It's definately route dependant where they allow overbooking in F I think. I'm going to take a stab in the dark that it's 747/777/a380 routes more than 787 routes due to the 14 seats? Would be interested to know if any downgrades have happened on 787 routes?
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Old Oct 11, 2017, 1:20 pm
  #225  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Originally Posted by stevemack
I was concerned about this due to flying with the misses and baby next year to SJC (787), so once we got our reward seats, I tried a a cash booking for 7 people to take it to 9 seats but it wouldn't let me, could only book another 6 seats in the cabin. It's definately route dependant where they allow overbooking in F I think. I'm going to take a stab in the dark that it's 747/777/a380 routes more than 787 routes due to the 14 seats? Would be interested to know if any downgrades have happened on 787 routes?
I've flown the SJC route in first a few times this year (on both AUPs and 2-4-1) and they've had AUPs available each time, so you shouldn't have to worry much with over booking, FWIW.

Last edited by JayeJ; Oct 11, 2017 at 4:24 pm Reason: clarification
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