luftaom

When watching the (mobile phone shot) video of the EK 773 cabin evacuation - I couldn't help but think that a number of people around the person filming it looked puzzled as to what they should do next and then like sheep they took their cue from someone else getting their bags out of the overhead locker and went along with that. I hope that if I am ever in that situation I don't freeze and do something dumb. I hope not but I'd be kidding myself if I said that under pressure I don't do dumb stuff. I can think of a number of instances when (with the benefit of hindsight) I have made poor decisions whilst under pressure.

I did notice that in the AA 763 evacuation last year - a couple of the interior photos showed open and empty lockers in the business class cabin.

I can't help but wonder if someone somewhere is working on a small version of the lock the door between the lift well and the office proper in my office block (the one where from the lift well side you have to swipe your pass and from the inside press a button ... and then a fraction of a second later the door clicks and you can push it open) for all the overhead lockers. It would also have the added benefit of discouraging people from standing up to get their bags whilst the aircraft is still taxiing into the gate and the cabin crew wouldn't have to get on the PA on practically every flight to tell people to sit back down.

tinkicker

The first point is part of social norms. We tend to do the things other people do, particularly when uncertain. It's one of the reasons for reading the safety card and paying attention to the cabin crew and just generally being nice... hopefully the passengers around you will follow your excellent example :-)

For the second, there is a balance between reliability of the locking mechanism, reliability in accessing the space in the event of a fire etc etc. At the moment I'm not aware of any serious plan to install locks, there are too many compromises.

That said the new Irkut MC-21 apparently has an option to centrally lock the cabin baggage. But you're unlikely to find one of those on your route anytime soon.

CrazyJ82

I don't know how you both get from the sensible conclusion that there should be an announcement of some sort to the bizarre conclusion that such an announcement should be worded in the most distressing way possible.

For the avoidance of doubt, I think what's reported upthread as the "official" wording here communicates the necessary information in a factual way. The text was probably arrived at because it achieves the goal of getting the instructions across in the right tone. My problem is the report in the OP of a crew member going off piste using wording that's likely to distress far more than a "minuscule" number of people.

simonrp84

Aah, that's a great shame. This is a bit outside my field so I hadn't realized, sad loss.

I agree. A fear of flying is a terrible thing, but I've seen people dosed up on all kinds of calming drugs to get them through a flight - this should be completely unacceptable for a start. It's incredibly dangerous in the event of an evacuation not just for that person but for everyone else around them.
Off topic: Same goes from drunkards on planes, except they're just plain selfish!

gms

Exactly. ^

I am frankly amazed at some of the comments being posted in this thread. I'm even more amazed that some posters cannot appreciate that a crew member using the word "crash" is really inappropriate. Some of the comments seem to be implying it is the passenger's fault if they are upset this!

Fear of flying affects around 25% of the population, to varying degrees. But some posters on this thread think they "should not be allowed to travel", since they would find it "aggrevating" travelling with them or they "could well be a danger to the rest of us".

fransknorge

Between 25 and 33% (depending on the studies) of people have a fear of flying to some extent. How does that statistic feed into your somewhat condescending view that logic will solve everything ?

SvenAge

Your view is that it's condescending - but please don't think your view is the only one around. I find your response insulting given that I have shared my opinion in the belief that it gives others hope and an approach to solving their issues. At the same time, I pointed out that flying when fearful can exacerbate the condition. I have therefore shown a strong desire to help people because I have suffered in the past for many years with extreme anxiety.

Your post on the other hand just sets out an insult, throwing a meaningless statistic at me which is so non-specific.

If you realised what you were asking then you'd know that logic does solve 'everything'. In so much as you wouldn't choose to harm yourself, so why choose to hurt yourself in this instance? We're talking about a serious mental condition here, something that you and others seem to dismiss, despite arguing under the pretext of 'concern'. Therefore your post seems really ironic - you attack someone who is trying to help, but offer nothing yourself.

SvenAge

In my view there are 2 issues here:

1) People make mistakes - it's unavoidable and if someone makes a mistake over a tannoy, my view is they should not be beaten up about it. Anything that is split second, people can make a mistake. It'd be crazy, that if some cabin crew (who was scared), accidentally said 'crash' and then got fired two days later after some disciplinary action and horrid social media campaign.

2) People ideally should not be so affected by what they hear around them. It's something I can really relate to having been extremely anxious in the past, and it's something I wish other people could overcome. I don't believe it's a life problem, but a symptom of a condition.

I don't see this in the same way as I see a nut allergy. An allergy is a natural reaction that cannot be treated easily. A reaction in this instance because someone says something, comes about because of a condition that /can/ be treated. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) is one method that subjects could look into.

fransknorge

Considering I suffer from a fear of flying and that I found your initial post to be insensitive to the issue and not helping. It is an irrational fear and most people suffering from it will tell you that logic does not help as they think: I know it is safe but what if my flight is the one to crash ?

SvenAge

I can only talk about my experiences and my belief that there is very little worse than anxiety. What I also realised was that the anxiety and fear is often worse than the actual situation/problem arising. With this knowledge and the right support, I believe anxiety can be much reduced. But I don't believe that shying away from sensitivities is the right way.

Anxiety is exacerbated when something cannot be resolved in your mind. Others talk about it as not being able to fully control a situation. The sum of these parts is that you need to be able to respond comfortably in a given moment to whatever situation you find yourself in and the fear is that you can't. Many people who suffer from anxiety are mentally exhausted by the situation and stress of trying to deal with the 'fear'. The focus has to be on resolving the situation (getting away from this tired thinking process) and this comes about through confidence - having dealt with the situation before, and by letting go of previous triggers. I used to have flashbacks that couldn't get away from. I lived with this for what felt like every second of the day.

Being able to dismiss these triggers and focus on the new situation when it takes place is where the difference shows itself. For me it is about letting go and thinking in a different way and taking a different approach - I dropped many beliefs I had because my world had a number of boxes, with categories, places and organisation. Everything was supposed to make sense and when it didn't, there were big problems. People were problems. However, I learnt a new way that we could never control the actions of others, but only control our reactions to this. We couldn't always confidently affect the behaviours of others, no matter how logical our argument.

There has to be a belief that not everything can be planned and that we have to trust our judgement. The movement has to be away from thinking about preventative measures, and more about believing in oneself to handle the situation should it arise. I grew up in fear and I think this affected my way of thinking, to the point that there is an element of comfort in it through familiarity.

I'm sorry you find my posts insensitive, but that is probably because my response is fundamentally about not being able to control the actions of others - which is very much big trigger of anxiety if you 'allow' to be. I still believe people can affect how much something influences them and what mood they take. People will disagree with me, but I can talk as someone who has changed a lot. These things don't change over night, but I believe they can for many people.

Dr Dave

Locks may make the problem worse. If a small proportion of people start wasting time trying to open locked locker (& getting confused about why they can't), and blocking the egress of all as a result, then the net effect will be adverse. Locking them may make sense only of people are acting rationally. In this situation many are not.

There are no easy answers. But it is still not clear whether stopping this behaviour will actually save many lives.

nallison

This is what I never get. I see this a lot on aviation forums; people saying no-one should be drunk or take valium Etc. because they won't respond well in an emergency situation. But in that case no-one should ever drink or take prescription drugs EVER. Because we are also always told that flying is the safest thing you can possibly do all day. So no-one should drink in a pub, it's incredibly dangerous in the event of an evacuation not just for that person but for everyone else around them

So which is it, is it super safe and don't worry? Or is it so super dangerous everyone should be constantly readied for an emergency like at no other time in day to day life? I suspect airlines are happy with people being dose up because statistics say not far off 50% of people have a fear of flying, and it does affect travel decisions as it is for many people. I doubt airlines can just throw away all that business.

And actually it's not an irrational fear, flying is basically the most unnatural thing you can ever do to your reptile brain. That's why falling/flying nightmares are so common

nallison

A long way of saying you are different to other people but somehow better. Your last paragraph is nonsense, as medical evidence shows. You may as well say, 'people can control the extent to which cancer affects them if they just know how'. Incredible how ignorant about the mind we still are.

SvenAge

Let me put this a different way as you have not understood what I meant.
A friend of mine has a headache. He keeps complaining about it. I offer him paracetomol but he refuses (by his admission for no reason) and spends the rest of the car trip complaining and screaming his head off. Due to his hostility, the driver nearly crashes.

The two points:

- the driver should be able to control his mood such that the behaviour of my friend does not make driving unsafe.
- the individual if he took the medication would not be suffering.

I'm always sceptical of people who make random references to cancer in order to win an argument.

The point I made was simple - people can change the way they are affected by situations if they manage to put past experiences away and move out of a period of anxiety. The fact that you think I'm superior is neither here nor there - I have lived through extreme anxiety and come out the end of it without issues I once had. My view is that people should not be held ransom by it - clearly your opinion is different - you feel people should be victim to the inner tensions. Rather than people address their issues, you feel that other people in society should walk around them with egg shells. Ok, fine.

Petrus

***Moderator Notice***

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Finally, several posts are on the edge of being in breach of the house rules.
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