ScruttonStreet

It feels like there may be two sides to this story and I would very much like to hear the other side.

San Gottardo

I know you're just repeating the "rule", whilst ignoring the absurdity of the situation: the agent *did* discuss someone else's reservation (=confirming that they were on the same flight) *before* then asking to speak to that other person (=to make the change).

The rule is one thing, and I understand its intention and I don't say it shouldn't exist, and I cannot accept it more than I already even if it's repeated to me. What I complain about is the absurdity of first not respecting that rule ("yes, they are on the same flight and in the same cabin") and then suddenly insisting on applying it ("I need to talk to the passenger"), and when I then comply the agent refuses to go ahead for some odd reason. The rule is one thing, the absurdity and the absence of common sense another.

San Gottardo

What interest would I have to change the story? I get absolutely no benefit - money, upgrades, better service, or other - from making up or tweaking the story. So yes, certainly the agent would describe it differently, but the fact is that despite having had the passenger on the phone as he requested he refused to proceed with the change.

switch007

I too regularly get annoyed about this but as already noted, the view I take (after cooling down!) is that the same data protection laws that annoy us also protect us.

Also, if you need access, the main subject can list you as authorised to discuss their details. The company needs to agree and be able to record it, which in my experience is in fact quite common.

apollo00

This might be what is complicating, but I really don't know the process or rules are so I'm speculating really.

What I can say is that I have frequently had seats assigned for family on separate bookings without their involvement, however in all cases I can think of there were circumstances which may have been good enough to satisfy data protection (either they were a member of my household account, or I had made and paid for the booking). On the other hand, this has frequently been done via social media team and I've never mentioned or been asked for the connection, just said 'I'm travelling with person x to y on these two booking refs, please link the PNRs and assign seat z to them please'

It would be good to have clarity from BA on what exactly the rules are here...

madfish

I think I'm with the agent on this. The incorrect information provided by the OP combined with potential delays in the brother confirming would be sufficient to ring alarm bells that would suggest terminating the call would be a safe option. You could always call back with all the information to hand and those able to confirm details readily available.

Ber2dca

Imagine some dude talked to an attractive young lady in a hotel lobby. She's got her trip itinerary on the table in front of her. He notices she's on the same flight back as he is in a couple of days and takes note of the name and PNR (easily done with a quick phone photo).

They go their separate ways but he is smitten and wants to see her again. He calls up the call centre and asks to be seated next to his 'sister'. He gives her name and PNR. The agent is reluctant but says he would do it if he could talk to her. He says 'okay', puts the phone down for a moment, gets back on and puts on a female voice pretending to be his 'sister'. The agent should (1) be suspicious and follow an instinct that this may not really be the sister or (2) simply assign the seats together as requested.

JAXBA

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Gottardo

I know you're just repeating the "rule", whilst ignoring the absurdity of the situation: the agent *did* discuss someone else's reservation (=confirming that they were on the same flight) *before* then asking to speak to that other person (=to make the change).

Yes, the situation was absurd, and the agent broke the Data Protection Act by confirming you were on the same flight. Once broken however, that doesn't mean further breaches are okay; the agent was correct to get back on track and seek permission of the other pax before modifying their booking on your request.

Does it make sense to seek permission to get a seat assigned? By itself it seems innocent, but by accessing someone else's reservation without permission and arranging the seat, the agent would be indirectly confirming that the other person had a reservation on a particular flight, which is (and was) a breach of the DPA.

The agent should have invoked the data protection requirements far sooner than they did, however inconvenient they are.

In future, for any Golds wanting TCP seating, it would be best for each other booking owner to call in themselves first, and add the Gold as an authorised party to their booking. Then the Gold can call in last and access the bookings and have the seats arranged. Annoying? Yes. DPA compliant? Yes.

Greenpen

Call centre staff everywhere use data protection to cover all sorts of things that the legislation does not. They are very junior staff that have to follow rules and have no authority at all. Forgive them; they are trapped in their dull system. Blame the anonymous creators of the rules.

San Gottardo

The last couple of posts justified the rule, which I wrote several times I do not question as such, and that I complied with (despite finding that this is going a bit over the top): but that's missing the main point, which was that even after complying the agent refused to go ahead.

And here is what will happen: if that female voice person can recite without hesitation the booking number, the date of birth and the email address of the attractive young lady, the seat change will happen. It doesn't matter whether the agent talks to the actual person, he only wants to talk to someone who can recite information. Which in a way makes sense, because the agent has no way to verify the identity of a person on the phone - fair enough, but then agents shouldn't pretend that they can actually identify someone by the speed by which they can find the booking code in their papers when being interrupted by surprised.

And just to come back to your example: the chap who fancies the lady would also need to have her email address (which may be on the printout that he takes a picture of) and her date of birth (more tricky).

Hence, as I wrote before: I get the benefit of data protection, I would prefer if it was applied with a bit of common sense, but I comply when I have to - but I have little understanding when human behaviour (=taking a couple of seconds to search for one's booking code) is taken as an indication for the person not being who he is.

In fact, knowing that the way to "identify" oneself is to have all information ready, I could call BA again, pretend to be my brother, give them all the information without a split second of hesitation, ask them to put a note in my brother's booking that they are allowed to let me manage his booking. Just shows how easy the system is to circumvent, which makes the insistence on it even more absurd. But I am just too honest to do that, so we'lol figure it out at the airport (not sure either of them has the patience to spend a long time waiting in the general waiting line for their calls to be picked up by BA)

HIDDY

Yes that works well. Shame the OP hadn't thought of it.

HereToHelp

I am with the agent on this one. A hesitation to provide the booking reference when requested would lead me to ask further security questions and if I was still in doubt, I would simply not proceed with the call. In fact, I never used to entertain the idea of conference calls as it was a breach of security and booking integrity. Do you think your bank or credit card company would accept a conference call where your personal details were being discussed? If you answer yes, then you need to review your personal protection approach. I take it that you aren't based in the UK, purely from the way you brush aside the risks of data protection breaches.

Just because someone works in a call centre doesn't give you the right to look down on them. If you follow the right process and channels, you will get assistance with what you are after. You will be making their job easier and they will be more than willing to go above and beyond. I no longer work for BA but I have had the pleasure of working with some of the best phone agents in the Newcastle and Manchester teams. The high number of Golden Tickets and Well Done letters attest to this.

email2markt

I think BA Customer Service is the most variable of any company i know, right from one end of the spectrum to the other.

I had an excellent lady on the exec club line, ultimately couldn't do what i wanted due to some silly BA rule (couldn't adjust BA award booking without risking losing my reward seats) but was very helpful and informative.

On the other hand, i've found that some are like robots and sometimes quite rude.

I've also found that generally anything done on the web form will not get actioned unless it's an extremely simple request, usually it falls into a black hole and the expectation is that you will call and chase to find out why nothing has been done.

San Gottardo

@HereToHelp: Bit patronising, isn't it? And not very convincing...

Let me re-explain "hesitation": the agent wanted to talk to the passenger for whom I had requested a seat assignment. I called that person, who did not expect me to call him and who was doing something else. He was asked for his birthday (which he knew right away), for the email to which the booking was sent (which he knew right away), and the booking reference (which he had to look up, as a 6 letter code is not something one learns by heart and that may be noted in an agenda or PC and takes a moment to look up when being asked for it unexpectedly). It's not hesitation as in "let me think whether I want to give you that reference" but as in "give me a second to look it up in the place where I have noted it".

What?? The agent wanted to talk to my brother, over the phone, and said "Probably he's not right next to you". I answered that indeed he wasn't but that I was going to call him. It doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether that person is next to me and gives his details through my phone receiver, does so over a speaker phone, or over a phone line that I can listen to as well.

How I would feel about my bank doing that?
1) It's my choice to decide when or when not I am feeling comfortable sharing my details, and which channel I feel comfortable with. If *I* choose to give them through a phone line, then that is *my* choice. In this case, in order to comply with the agent's request, I chose to give my details over the phone and so did my brother. If I choose to plaster my booking reference and BAEC card number on an advertising board in Piccadilly Circus, then that is my choice. If BA did the same without consulting me, then I would object.
2) I happen to feel that it is OK because I do not suppose that the call centre's lines are tapped - otherwise I wouldn't call them in the first place but would use another communication channel. I also don't suppose that my line is tapped, nor that of my brother. So what is the problem?

I take it that you have a somewhat "biased" view of the world if you believe that the UK is the only country where data protection is taken seriously (as it happens, the UK happens to be the country that asked my country to *relax* data protection because the UK government felt that we were doing too much of it!). And there clearly are ways to protect data and IDs other than asking all kinds of personal information from a passenger and making them accessible to anyone in the call centre. Other airlines ask for the FF number and a secret code to be entered in a touch-tone phone, yet others have a system where the agent asks for only 3 random number of a 5 digit PIN code. Those systems do not divulge my private details to someone in a call centre.

1) I don't look down on them but I question whether that person has some common sense in doubting someone's identity based on the speed with which one can look up a booking reference when doing something else and not expected to be asked about it
2) Given the patronising tone of your post....
3) A person working in a call centre has every right not to be looked down upon, abused, etc. But it's not because I am talking to someone in a call centre that I am not allowed to expect a minimum of common sense.

Huh? So this was the *wrong* channel?? So whom should I call if not British Airways when requiring a seat assignment on a British Airways flight? Please advise.

And what is the "right process"? I presume the one that the agent asked me to follow and which I did. So what other "right process" is there?

Hmmm... it hadn't occurred to me that their job was made difficult if I have a perfectly reasonable request and on top of that complied with the process that I am being asked to follow. Making the agent's job even easier (not sure what you have in mind, shall I send flowers? A softer seat cushion? Brew fresh coffee?) was indeed not the intention. I remained courteous (and so did the agent BTW), followed the instructions, but expressed surprise when after doing exactly what we were being asked to do some bogus reason is invented to refuse to proceed.

And surely you understand that this episode does not make me wish to give a golden ticket. I am sure many agents there are competent, but the absence of common sense in this case was mindboggling.

San Gottardo

And how could I "think of it" before? This was the first time I was doing this, and the agent explained it to me on the phone. So there was no way of thinking before of something that I didn't know.