IAD has 'made a mistake' [on CCR card dining]
#106
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,882
I'm not sure what all that has to do with the comment I made, my comments have been in the context of the following post:
From my observations, and from the conversations I've had with the people I've met in the CCR who read FT, there is a lot of truth in the above statement. I remember a time not that long ago when there were about a handful of GGLs on FT - now, with the advent of cheap-ex-EU fares there are many more GGLs. When one looks through the TP Run and Premium Fare Deals topics you will see just how many are doing these runs. For every one person on here posting of their TP running exploits, there will be more who don't post.
I think on FT there may be a further bias in so much that a greater proportion of the CCR holders (not all!) may have earned their status from TP runs or similar, which is likely to be unprofitable business for BA (or at the very least, less profitable). Therefore, on this forum at least, there may be a greater sway towards the argument that CCR dining should be provided for CCR holders everywhere.
#107
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: BA GGL, CR
Posts: 193
I would be amazed if anything more than a small minority of CCR holders have got the card via Tier Point Runs. Its such a lot of travel for such a minor benefit. My office has 6 or so CCR holders, certainly none of us got them for anything other than regular travel.
I'm likely to travel a lot less to Asia in my next membership year, so will probably fall below 5000 TPs. My "magic" number is 3500, which I'm sure I will be at through natural travel. I reckon I'd need to be stuck at TP 4800 or so before seeing any need to do a TP to get to 5000.
I'm likely to travel a lot less to Asia in my next membership year, so will probably fall below 5000 TPs. My "magic" number is 3500, which I'm sure I will be at through natural travel. I reckon I'd need to be stuck at TP 4800 or so before seeing any need to do a TP to get to 5000.
#108
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,554
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
The new J soft product currently being trailed on LHR-JFK seems to be a substantial improvement according to all first hand reports.
While I agree that BA has many shortcomings, and I agree with some of the other points you made, I think there is at least some light at the end of the tunnel for premium pax.
#110
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,149
To be fair to BA, their argument/theory is presumably that the First pre-flight dining (whether it is called that (ORD, PHL etc.) or "Concorde Dining") is not a lounge but just an "on the ground" meal service from the First cabin...
By the same token, BAEC Silver (and Gold/GGL) can access the Club lounge at JFK, but only Club World passengers have access to the Club World pre-flight dining for the sleeper services.
I agree it's a somewhat bizarre distinction and calling the First pre-flight dining "Concorde" at some outstations clearly confuses the issue...and I agree that for the sake of an additional 5-10 visits a week it hardly seems worth penny-pinching your best customers - but it's not entirely without precedent.
By the same token, BAEC Silver (and Gold/GGL) can access the Club lounge at JFK, but only Club World passengers have access to the Club World pre-flight dining for the sleeper services.
I agree it's a somewhat bizarre distinction and calling the First pre-flight dining "Concorde" at some outstations clearly confuses the issue...and I agree that for the sake of an additional 5-10 visits a week it hardly seems worth penny-pinching your best customers - but it's not entirely without precedent.
#111
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,163
If there is genuinely a problem with a shortage of tables, the common sense thing to do here would surely be to reserve a certain number of tables for F passengers and then allow CCR users access once it is confirmed whether there will be space either because the F load is light, includes a lot of CCR holders/double counting or because some F passengers have decline to dine (IAD is where I've used pre-flight dining most and you are typically asked on entry 'will you be dining before the flight' or similar). I suspect that is not the real issue here, however!
In particular, I'd like to point out I've encountered the issue of there being no free booths at the CCR at LHR more than once, but never had the same issue at an outstation!
In particular, I'd like to point out I've encountered the issue of there being no free booths at the CCR at LHR more than once, but never had the same issue at an outstation!
#112
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,701
At JFK it is very much set up for dining at the tables only.
#113
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,163
It can get busy with tables especially between around 0730-0930. However, you can eat anywhere, and the two high tables are set up for dining all day. I actually never bother with a booth at the LHR CCR and usually sit on the high table.
At JFK it is very much set up for dining at the tables only.
At JFK it is very much set up for dining at the tables only.
#114
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,167
There is no F lounge at IAD any more. The last refurbishment a few years ago made a Galleries Club lounge, Club pre-flight dining and the Concorde dining room.
There is no dedicated lounge area for F passengers, Gold Card Holders or one-world Emeralds. These passengers can only use the Club lounge area.
The Concorde dining room is primarily for dining, there's no lounge area, just booths with tables and not very comfortable bench seating. There is a tiny area at the entrance to the dining room with two armchairs and a selection of drinks. I suppose that's intended as a waiting area when the dining room is full (which I've never seen to be the case). Only First class passengers are allowed in the dining room (as per the OP reason for this thread).
I've said it before, but I think the lounge arrangements and quality of food and beverage at IAD are poor for a major outstation.
There is no dedicated lounge area for F passengers, Gold Card Holders or one-world Emeralds. These passengers can only use the Club lounge area.
The Concorde dining room is primarily for dining, there's no lounge area, just booths with tables and not very comfortable bench seating. There is a tiny area at the entrance to the dining room with two armchairs and a selection of drinks. I suppose that's intended as a waiting area when the dining room is full (which I've never seen to be the case). Only First class passengers are allowed in the dining room (as per the OP reason for this thread).
I've said it before, but I think the lounge arrangements and quality of food and beverage at IAD are poor for a major outstation.
#115
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,882
If there is genuinely a problem with a shortage of tables, the common sense thing to do here would surely be to reserve a certain number of tables for F passengers and then allow CCR users access once it is confirmed whether there will be space either because the F load is light, includes a lot of CCR holders/double counting or because some F passengers have decline to dine (IAD is where I've used pre-flight dining most and you are typically asked on entry 'will you be dining before the flight' or similar). I suspect that is not the real issue here, however!
In particular, I'd like to point out I've encountered the issue of there being no free booths at the CCR at LHR more than once, but never had the same issue at an outstation!
In particular, I'd like to point out I've encountered the issue of there being no free booths at the CCR at LHR more than once, but never had the same issue at an outstation!
#116
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,163
Well yes, you would say that as a CCR! The whole of BAEC is set up to create DYKWIA moments, think this is perhaps rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
#117
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: BA (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 1,256
It would be helpful if some such designation could be dreamed up because otherwise anything BA does to improve its first class product on the ground will have the same problem. If BA contrived to provide escorts by car from the CCR at T5 direct to the 'plane for passengers in First to match AF's offering, for example, I would guess FT would have about a nanosecond of peace before a long dreary thread from outraged CCR cardholders who didn't get an escort to their flight was started...
#118
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,676
It would be helpful if some such designation could be dreamed up because otherwise anything BA does to improve its first class product on the ground will have the same problem. If BA contrived to provide escorts by car from the CCR at T5 direct to the 'plane for passengers in First to match AF's offering, for example, I would guess FT would have about a nanosecond of peace before a long dreary thread from outraged CCR cardholders who didn't get an escort to their flight was started...
300 odd departures a day - let's assume 50% are LH - and for argument they all have First. That's 150 x 14 (average seat count) maximum capacity. 2100 people. Failing to include 15 (or even 30 if you allow for guests) onto that 2100 would seem ... petty.
Even if the numbers were at 1000 people a day - then not accounting for the additional 30 would be petty.
#119
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: BA (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 1,256
Actually - I think if the numbers we get from the briefing sheets are right and there's generally only 12-15 CCR/Prems going through T5 on a daily basis - I think they'd have a right to feel peeved at being excluded.
300 odd departures a day - let's assume 50% are LH - and for argument they all have First. That's 150 x 14 (average seat count) maximum capacity. 2100 people. Failing to include 15 (or even 30 if you allow for guests) onto that 2100 would seem ... petty.
Even if the numbers were at 1000 people a day - then not accounting for the additional 30 would be petty.
300 odd departures a day - let's assume 50% are LH - and for argument they all have First. That's 150 x 14 (average seat count) maximum capacity. 2100 people. Failing to include 15 (or even 30 if you allow for guests) onto that 2100 would seem ... petty.
Even if the numbers were at 1000 people a day - then not accounting for the additional 30 would be petty.
#120
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,882
This policy doesn't affect me at all, I would never need access using my CCR Card. My reference to DYKWIA moments was in respect to those seeking access, being refused and getting all DYKWIA with the lounge agent.