It's open season on BA in the UK press
Jun 25, 2017, 6:48 am
#16
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I went to upvote your comment but unfortunately it was removed by a Grauniad mod...
Jun 25, 2017, 6:53 am
#17
Join Date: Jan 2017
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The Montreal convention should cover provable damages which is basically a consequential loss due to delay.Yet I know from bitter experience that BA try and wash their hands of this.
http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/air.carriage.unification.convention.montreal.1999/19.html
http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/air.carriage.unification.convention.montreal.1999/19.html
Jun 25, 2017, 7:06 am
#18
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The (obvious) issue is the difference between buying a flight and buying a holiday.
Consumers are piecing together individual elements of a holiday separately without understand the risks and limits of liability should things go wrong. Insurance is marketed as the glue that kicks in should any piece come unstuck but there is no clear or regulated requirement around what needs to be covered (unlike for the airlines specifically).
It's hard to envisage the unusual free market solution eventually resolving this given the complexity - so, very much on the consumer to be fully aware and be prepared to fight.
(Surprised some VC firm somewhere hasn't put together a business case around this to quietly purchase and then leverage Flyertalk!).
Consumers are piecing together individual elements of a holiday separately without understand the risks and limits of liability should things go wrong. Insurance is marketed as the glue that kicks in should any piece come unstuck but there is no clear or regulated requirement around what needs to be covered (unlike for the airlines specifically).
It's hard to envisage the unusual free market solution eventually resolving this given the complexity - so, very much on the consumer to be fully aware and be prepared to fight.
(Surprised some VC firm somewhere hasn't put together a business case around this to quietly purchase and then leverage Flyertalk!).
Jun 25, 2017, 7:08 am
#19
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Jun 25, 2017, 7:21 am
#20
Community Director
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A dose of commercial realism is needed here. Most companies that provide a single component of a complete package, certainly where the value of that single component is a small percentage of the total package, do not even consider a consequential loss agreement. If they have one it's solely because the customer is so valuable to them they're prepared to take the risk via self-insurance, or insure it themselves (for which the premium would be a barrier even if you could find someone to underwrite it).
Why on earth would anyone suddenly expect any airline, not just BA, to be treated more unfairly than any other commercial organisation?
You want that written into law somewhere? Sure, that can happen. Are you also then prepared to pay the increased airfares that will cover the cost of that?
The problem here isn't with BA, it's with the insurance companes whose behaviour is reprehensible. They're the ones you could more easily argue are taking money under false pretences.
Why on earth would anyone suddenly expect any airline, not just BA, to be treated more unfairly than any other commercial organisation?
You want that written into law somewhere? Sure, that can happen. Are you also then prepared to pay the increased airfares that will cover the cost of that?
The problem here isn't with BA, it's with the insurance companes whose behaviour is reprehensible. They're the ones you could more easily argue are taking money under false pretences.
Jun 25, 2017, 7:46 am
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,209
Someone made a good point earlier on. BA do offer flight and accommodation packages which should give you more security when things go wrong.
Jun 25, 2017, 8:09 am
#23
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DEL
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I have heard this a few times, but I'm sceptical. So many passengers buy on price or on business according to a company policy, that I'm sure the impact is rarely that significant.
Jun 25, 2017, 9:32 am
#24
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Gee, my carefully constructed post has been removed. Banned by The Guardian! More than I've ever managed to do here. My thanks to the supporting commentators in the linked thread, who have suffered the same fate, but we probably get a medal for this.
Jun 25, 2017, 9:35 am
#25
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bristol
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; it was a measured and informative post, no reason whatsoever to remove it...Is thete any way of finding out which of their "10 simple rules" you allegedly fell foul of ?
Jun 25, 2017, 11:34 am
#26
Suspended
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Its no different to what goes on here but on a larger scale:
Stage 1: convince yourself there is a huge cost cutting agenda damaging the brand
Stage 2: look for stories where customer experience has been poor - particularly human interest
Stage 3: report factually that stage 2 is caused by cuts
Stage 4: Demand change in leadership and big investment, and promise to remove patronage until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet in the meantime
Its a bit like the public sector here in the Uk with "Austerity" (otherwise known as ensuring we have the scale of state infrastructure we can afford):
Stage 1: Believe we should put more money into the state; and that cuts are damaging
Stage 2: Look for evidence where the state has let people down
Stage 3: Connect 2 with 3 and create the perception that cuts are the reason for everything
Stage 4: Demand end of austerity and new leadership. Participate in cilvil protests or strikes until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet and in the Guardian in the meantime
Stage 1: convince yourself there is a huge cost cutting agenda damaging the brand
Stage 2: look for stories where customer experience has been poor - particularly human interest
Stage 3: report factually that stage 2 is caused by cuts
Stage 4: Demand change in leadership and big investment, and promise to remove patronage until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet in the meantime
Its a bit like the public sector here in the Uk with "Austerity" (otherwise known as ensuring we have the scale of state infrastructure we can afford):
Stage 1: Believe we should put more money into the state; and that cuts are damaging
Stage 2: Look for evidence where the state has let people down
Stage 3: Connect 2 with 3 and create the perception that cuts are the reason for everything
Stage 4: Demand end of austerity and new leadership. Participate in cilvil protests or strikes until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet and in the Guardian in the meantime
Jun 25, 2017, 11:42 am
#27
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
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Jun 25, 2017, 11:47 am
#28
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 629
Its no different to what goes on here but on a larger scale:
Stage 1: convince yourself there is a huge cost cutting agenda damaging the brand
Stage 2: look for stories where customer experience has been poor - particularly human interest
Stage 3: report factually that stage 2 is caused by cuts
Stage 4: Demand change in leadership and big investment, and promise to remove patronage until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet in the meantime
Its a bit like the public sector here in the Uk with "Austerity" (otherwise known as ensuring we have the scale of state infrastructure we can afford):
Stage 1: Believe we should put more money into the state; and that cuts are damaging
Stage 2: Look for evidence where the state has let people down
Stage 3: Connect 2 with 3 and create the perception that cuts are the reason for everything
Stage 4: Demand end of austerity and new leadership. Participate in cilvil protests or strikes until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet and in the Guardian in the meantime
Stage 1: convince yourself there is a huge cost cutting agenda damaging the brand
Stage 2: look for stories where customer experience has been poor - particularly human interest
Stage 3: report factually that stage 2 is caused by cuts
Stage 4: Demand change in leadership and big investment, and promise to remove patronage until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet in the meantime
Its a bit like the public sector here in the Uk with "Austerity" (otherwise known as ensuring we have the scale of state infrastructure we can afford):
Stage 1: Believe we should put more money into the state; and that cuts are damaging
Stage 2: Look for evidence where the state has let people down
Stage 3: Connect 2 with 3 and create the perception that cuts are the reason for everything
Stage 4: Demand end of austerity and new leadership. Participate in cilvil protests or strikes until things improve, but complain a lot on the internet and in the Guardian in the meantime
Jun 25, 2017, 12:00 pm
#29
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,677
There are two articles in this weekend's Guardian consumer page in which BA gets blamed, mostly unfairly, for miserable travel experiences.
British Airways ruined our holiday but it won’t pay out
(This followed BA's IT meltdown in May. BA quickly refunded the costs of the flights and paid EC261 compensation without a fuss, but the customer also wants them to pay for the accommodation they had paid for and were unable to use. The customer's insurance company has refused to pay.)
British Airways ruined our holiday but it won’t pay out
(This followed BA's IT meltdown in May. BA quickly refunded the costs of the flights and paid EC261 compensation without a fuss, but the customer also wants them to pay for the accommodation they had paid for and were unable to use. The customer's insurance company has refused to pay.)
Jun 25, 2017, 5:11 pm
#30
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,209
Unless they frequent this forum I suspect your average Joe Public doesn't have a BAEC Gold card either.
Which policy do you have? It would be handy to know as good value travel insurance that covers every eventuality is hard to get.
Which policy do you have? It would be handy to know as good value travel insurance that covers every eventuality is hard to get.