BA to lease 9 Qatar A320s + crews during strike
Jul 26, 2017, 8:22 am
#466
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: London, UK
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I think it has been covered extensively upthread that crew members who are between flights do not require work permits in the UK. The law makes no distinction between flights outwith the EU and within the EU, so long as they are leaving the country and only staying between their flights.
Jul 26, 2017, 8:44 am
#467
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LBA
Posts: 358
I think it has been covered extensively upthread that crew members who are between flights do not require work permits in the UK. The law makes no distinction between flights outwith the EU and within the EU, so long as they are leaving the country and only staying between their flights.
Jul 26, 2017, 8:49 am
#469
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LBA
Posts: 358
rossmacd - I'm not familiar with the rules on how flight crew operate (but I'm learning). Just seems strange how flight crew that are effictively now based in the UK, operating flights to/from the UK do not need UK work permits.
Jul 26, 2017, 8:53 am
#470
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DWC
Programs: OWS, *A G
Posts: 626
I think the important point here is that they are working on Qatari aircraft and therefore I assume they have Qatari work permits.
Therefore British crew are exempt from work permits (on account of being crew) only when working on British registered aircraft (as well as those registered in the EU for now), no?
EDIT: Yorkshire Traveller - this is part of the wet lease arrangement, approved by the CAA.
Therefore British crew are exempt from work permits (on account of being crew) only when working on British registered aircraft (as well as those registered in the EU for now), no?
EDIT: Yorkshire Traveller - this is part of the wet lease arrangement, approved by the CAA.
Last edited by zat_dude; Jul 26, 2017 at 8:53 am Reason: responding to new comment
Jul 26, 2017, 1:32 pm
#471
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And a second Qatar flight in one day! This one has a very different (older) cabin though. I will post photos later.
Jul 26, 2017, 1:56 pm
#472
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Air crew are permitted to enter the UK as long as they can show they're leaving again within a certain time frame. Most will actually be leaving earlier than (say) their colleagues coming on flights from Qatar itself, The fact that they'll be doing several hops back and forth over 5-15 days is irrelevant.
Jul 26, 2017, 4:21 pm
#473
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Right, so unexpectedly I had two Qatar flights today on my day trip to Trier via T3 and LUX. Here are some photos of the two very different cabins, one much better than the other.
The outbound cabin was fairly similar to the newer AA First seating, but with much more legroom than either BA or AA. I was in 1A on the outbound.
Also there was good in-seat power options and wifi, which worked perfectly, as evidenced by my post upthread whilst flying over Kent and the English Channel.
The downside was that while the seat was wider on the sides, this was wasted space, there was just air between me and the central seat mounting. It also meant that I was physically much nearer the passenger in 1C, elbow to elbow. Personally I like the CE middle table area, I find it useful and makes good use of the space. But taking everything into consideration, the seat outbound was a positive.
On the return, less so. I'm not sure if this comes across in the photo, but for the return service in the evening, we were in an older cabin, and while clean and in full working order it wasn't as good as the morning flight, nor as good as the BA seat, at least from a row 1 perspective: less leg room, the older power socket was deep into the seat and so the plug didn't fit the space allowed (and was US/Europe only). No wifi either. And I was very much aware that we had less privacy as passengers since my neighbour was sat right next to me. I suspect row 2 and 3 would have had a more mixed verdict, presumably more leg room and hopefully more knee room, so long as the person in front doesn't recline - the recline is much more significant than BA.
Other observations:
1) I was and remain unhappy that BA did not contact me in advance to tell me of the airline substitution. I do get SMS and email messages for other significant events, but not for this one. I was told about the Ryanair substitutions during the EF strikes a few years back. I paid for a British Airways service, not a Qatar one. Because I was using the App, HBO, and went to the gate close to the end of boarding, at the Heathrow end the very first I became aware it was a Qatar service was when I went round the final bend of the airbridge and there was a Qatar cabin crew member in front of me. [At the LUX end I only knew because with limited flight movements you could see what was going on from the windows of the lounge].
2) The crew were professional, hardworking and did a good job of looking after me on board and keeping me safe. The safety briefing was the QR version, but it was properly delivered and the usual crew checks were done correctly.
3) On the other hand there was never any risk of a quickfire round of Innuendo Bingo. I'm trying to avoid the robot word, but to be honest, that is the word that lingers. I know that 2) is vastly more important than 3).
4) There were some amusing schoolboy/girl howlers: "We would like to welcome home all our customers who live in Heathrow...." I imagine the cribsheet said "who live in [name of airport]"
5) There were quite a few extra touches which were appreciated: there were two rounds of hot towels on the evening flight, one after take off, another have the food trays were removed. Good idea. They offered a third (am I filthy?).
6) On the return we were also offered a tray of preflight drinks before take-off - water or juice, in glasses. Double plus good. We were also offered seconds of both meals, and seconds of the desserts too.
7) On landing a staff member rushed over the curtain to hold the economy passengers back. Mixed views on this, it adds to the Club Arabia service but sometimes an old dear (of any age) will take a very long time to get a move on and perhaps doesn't want everyone held back on their account.
8) On both legs extra food and drink was offered, there was also a huge tray of Out of Africa nut packet presented after breakfast: "Can I interest you in any nuts, Sir?" I could only think of Ferrero Rocher. Probably works better in the Middle East.
9) No bacon for breakfast. Now having spent much of my life in Arab countries I know the score here, and as a one off it was I suppose good to have an alternative, in this case chicken sausage and omelette. Moreover I had obviously stuffed myself in the Cathay lounge so it really wasn't a problem for me. However, down to brass tacks, British breakfasts have bacon. Qatar serve alcohol, they should serve bacon if working for BA.
10) Some service glitches. Because of my full Monty, all I really wanted on the flight was either the fruit tray or yoghurt+compote, which I know full well gets loaded on these aircraft. The crew member took the breakfast order on the ground, and agreed to arrange this. Shortly before departure she returned, apologising that the yoghurt hadn't been loaded and was I sure I didn't want the omelette? No, that's totally fine, I said, I'll manage without food, thank you. Just after were in the cruise, without another word of explanation, a tray of yoghurt + compote was duly presented.
11) Qatar cannot make a decent cup of tea. Absolutely hopeless. First cup: 50% milk! Second cup: 1% milk!! "It's really complicated", say the cabin crew member. To make it worse, whereas such a scenario on BA would be met with the silver jug being plonked down on the table with "you best sort yourself out then", on Qatar the cup keeps going back to the galley to be fixed. I presume this is what the manual says. Similar, but slightly better outcome on the return too (Indian and Malaysian crew members, which probably helped). Mug pre-warmed? Certainly not.
12) Annoyance on both flights: Qatar doesn't do "10 minutes to landing", it does a very generous "20 minutes to landing", total overkill. So on the return we were all packed up well before we reached Hastings. I guess at least the crew got some rest after all the rushing around to that point.
13) I didn't see much reaction from the other passengers, one way or the other. Most seemed oblivious, and particularly on the morning sector, the crew reported very few ET passengers had food or drink, many just wanted to sleep.
So a bit of a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. But I hope normal service will be resumed for my flights tomorrow.
Incidentally at LUX, at about the time the inbound service should have landed (it was a bit late) I had a real shock - had we been allocated Qatar's answer to G-MEDK?
Luckily it just rolled on to the cargo area.
The outbound cabin was fairly similar to the newer AA First seating, but with much more legroom than either BA or AA. I was in 1A on the outbound.
Also there was good in-seat power options and wifi, which worked perfectly, as evidenced by my post upthread whilst flying over Kent and the English Channel.
The downside was that while the seat was wider on the sides, this was wasted space, there was just air between me and the central seat mounting. It also meant that I was physically much nearer the passenger in 1C, elbow to elbow. Personally I like the CE middle table area, I find it useful and makes good use of the space. But taking everything into consideration, the seat outbound was a positive.
On the return, less so. I'm not sure if this comes across in the photo, but for the return service in the evening, we were in an older cabin, and while clean and in full working order it wasn't as good as the morning flight, nor as good as the BA seat, at least from a row 1 perspective: less leg room, the older power socket was deep into the seat and so the plug didn't fit the space allowed (and was US/Europe only). No wifi either. And I was very much aware that we had less privacy as passengers since my neighbour was sat right next to me. I suspect row 2 and 3 would have had a more mixed verdict, presumably more leg room and hopefully more knee room, so long as the person in front doesn't recline - the recline is much more significant than BA.
Other observations:
1) I was and remain unhappy that BA did not contact me in advance to tell me of the airline substitution. I do get SMS and email messages for other significant events, but not for this one. I was told about the Ryanair substitutions during the EF strikes a few years back. I paid for a British Airways service, not a Qatar one. Because I was using the App, HBO, and went to the gate close to the end of boarding, at the Heathrow end the very first I became aware it was a Qatar service was when I went round the final bend of the airbridge and there was a Qatar cabin crew member in front of me. [At the LUX end I only knew because with limited flight movements you could see what was going on from the windows of the lounge].
2) The crew were professional, hardworking and did a good job of looking after me on board and keeping me safe. The safety briefing was the QR version, but it was properly delivered and the usual crew checks were done correctly.
3) On the other hand there was never any risk of a quickfire round of Innuendo Bingo. I'm trying to avoid the robot word, but to be honest, that is the word that lingers. I know that 2) is vastly more important than 3).
4) There were some amusing schoolboy/girl howlers: "We would like to welcome home all our customers who live in Heathrow...." I imagine the cribsheet said "who live in [name of airport]"
5) There were quite a few extra touches which were appreciated: there were two rounds of hot towels on the evening flight, one after take off, another have the food trays were removed. Good idea. They offered a third (am I filthy?).
6) On the return we were also offered a tray of preflight drinks before take-off - water or juice, in glasses. Double plus good. We were also offered seconds of both meals, and seconds of the desserts too.
7) On landing a staff member rushed over the curtain to hold the economy passengers back. Mixed views on this, it adds to the Club Arabia service but sometimes an old dear (of any age) will take a very long time to get a move on and perhaps doesn't want everyone held back on their account.
8) On both legs extra food and drink was offered, there was also a huge tray of Out of Africa nut packet presented after breakfast: "Can I interest you in any nuts, Sir?" I could only think of Ferrero Rocher. Probably works better in the Middle East.
9) No bacon for breakfast. Now having spent much of my life in Arab countries I know the score here, and as a one off it was I suppose good to have an alternative, in this case chicken sausage and omelette. Moreover I had obviously stuffed myself in the Cathay lounge so it really wasn't a problem for me. However, down to brass tacks, British breakfasts have bacon. Qatar serve alcohol, they should serve bacon if working for BA.
10) Some service glitches. Because of my full Monty, all I really wanted on the flight was either the fruit tray or yoghurt+compote, which I know full well gets loaded on these aircraft. The crew member took the breakfast order on the ground, and agreed to arrange this. Shortly before departure she returned, apologising that the yoghurt hadn't been loaded and was I sure I didn't want the omelette? No, that's totally fine, I said, I'll manage without food, thank you. Just after were in the cruise, without another word of explanation, a tray of yoghurt + compote was duly presented.
11) Qatar cannot make a decent cup of tea. Absolutely hopeless. First cup: 50% milk! Second cup: 1% milk!! "It's really complicated", say the cabin crew member. To make it worse, whereas such a scenario on BA would be met with the silver jug being plonked down on the table with "you best sort yourself out then", on Qatar the cup keeps going back to the galley to be fixed. I presume this is what the manual says. Similar, but slightly better outcome on the return too (Indian and Malaysian crew members, which probably helped). Mug pre-warmed? Certainly not.
12) Annoyance on both flights: Qatar doesn't do "10 minutes to landing", it does a very generous "20 minutes to landing", total overkill. So on the return we were all packed up well before we reached Hastings. I guess at least the crew got some rest after all the rushing around to that point.
13) I didn't see much reaction from the other passengers, one way or the other. Most seemed oblivious, and particularly on the morning sector, the crew reported very few ET passengers had food or drink, many just wanted to sleep.
So a bit of a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. But I hope normal service will be resumed for my flights tomorrow.
Incidentally at LUX, at about the time the inbound service should have landed (it was a bit late) I had a real shock - had we been allocated Qatar's answer to G-MEDK?
Luckily it just rolled on to the cargo area.
Jul 26, 2017, 5:33 pm
#474
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, CX Gold (OW Sapphire), Hilton Gold, SPG Gold, Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,476
CWS - the reason you had two aircraft is that 8 of the 9 being leased are the older QR A320 frames, with the other 1 being newer having been brought in for QR's abortive Saudi airline which literally never got off the ground.
I have to say I felt the QR Y seats (in the older frame) were an improvement on the BA Y seats.
I have to say I felt the QR Y seats (in the older frame) were an improvement on the BA Y seats.
Jul 26, 2017, 10:12 pm
#476
formerly rxfleming
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: AUH, DXB (and GLA)
Programs: BA GGL, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Plat Elite
Posts: 2,455
Trier! Oh my, what a fantastic little city. I love it. The seat of the Roman Empire in Germany and all that. Very fond memories of Trier for many years. This sparked lots of memories, thanks cws.
Jul 26, 2017, 11:42 pm
#477
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold (woohoo)
Posts: 189
Apologies if this is already noted, but found some QR flights in the BA booking engine for this upcoming weekend. BA 460/1 to MAD on Sunday 30th to be specific. Can HBO for £49 on the outbound if anyone wants to try the QR experience, although you'd have to skip to 19:35 BA flight to come back for another £49.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:23 am
#478
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AY+ Platinum, SK Gold, BAEC Silver, airbaltic VIP, Radisson VIP
Posts: 6,530
1) I was and remain unhappy that BA did not contact me in advance to tell me of the airline substitution.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:52 am
#479
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BA Gold, *A Gold, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 241
Thanks for the trip report cws, very informative.
I've always wondered (and apologies if you've been asked 1000 times) but what is it that you do exactly and what is your affiliation with BA, given you always seem to have detailed insight into the company?
I've always wondered (and apologies if you've been asked 1000 times) but what is it that you do exactly and what is your affiliation with BA, given you always seem to have detailed insight into the company?
Jul 27, 2017, 2:17 am
#480
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK/France
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hertz Gold, Avis Preferred, Honours Silver, Marriott, Hyatt, IHG
Posts: 274
Yes, the operating carrier must always be disclosed to the customer. It is also displayed on the screens in the terminal. The crew should also announce it on the aircraft (hence the slightly annoying "good morning everyone (sic!) welcome on board this British Airways operated British Airways service to xxx)