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BA to lease 9 Qatar A320s + crews during strike

BA to lease 9 Qatar A320s + crews during strike

Old Jun 23, 17, 7:47 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
By crew I meant cabin crew. These are wet leases, they come with Qatari cabin crew. Which means there must be enough Qatari cabin crew who are trained on short-haul but still have permission to work in the UK, which I found odd.
I think you are getting mixed up, as I quoted and replied to Ahmetdouas's post about pilots. The CAA will determine whether they can fly in UK airspace regardless of nationality.

As far as cabin crew are concerned I believe Qatar employs a decent number of European staff who by virtue of EU law do not require permission to work here. In other words they are not Qatari but merely employees of Qatar Airlines who may actually be British, Czech, Slovakian etc etc.
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Old Jun 23, 17, 7:50 am
  #62  
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One thing to note, is that MF strike or not, BA have said for years that they don't have enough cabin crew for the summer months.

Wet-leasing the 9 aircraft from QR, allows BA to operate their full schedule, as the crews are from QR.

On the flipside, QR intra-Gulf flights are quieter over the summer months* than during the rest of the year, so certain short-haul flights are routinely cancelled - in turn, freeing up capacity, which BA are happy to utilise.

M

*And obviously even quieter at present due to the current air-space ban, but that has already been discussed.
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Old Jun 23, 17, 7:56 am
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These are wet leased aircraft,so if approved they will come with pilots and cabin crew,with perhaps a BA supernumary cabin crew to supervise the service.

From previous experience there will be an issue with the right to work in the UK,both for Pilots and Cabin crew.The CAA does not police visa issues,but they will be looking at the whole operation.Just because Qatar is allowed to operate DOH-LHR-DOH does not mean they can bring a sub fleet here to wet lease.The strike of a percentage of the Cabin Crew insufficient in numbers to shut down the whole airline may not be considered exceptional.

The Home Office or the DoT will be the ones issuing visas.l
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Old Jun 23, 17, 8:15 am
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Originally Posted by rapidex View Post
These are wet leased aircraft,so if approved they will come with pilots and cabin crew,with perhaps a BA supernumary cabin crew to supervise the service.

From previous experience there will be an issue with the right to work in the UK,both for Pilots and Cabin crew.The CAA does not police visa issues,but they will be looking at the whole operation.Just because Qatar is allowed to operate DOH-LHR-DOH does not mean they can bring a sub fleet here to wet lease.The strike of a percentage of the Cabin Crew insufficient in numbers to shut down the whole airline may not be considered exceptional.

The Home Office or the DoT will be the ones issuing visas.l
Clearly visas are only required if an individual doesn't have a right to work here. If the flights are operated by EU pilots and crew there is no need for a work visa or for the Home Office/DoT to get involved.

There is however a need for the CAA to agree to the leasing arrangement. Obviously it follows that if the CAA refuses to approve the arrangement the rest is all irrelevant anyway.
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Old Jun 23, 17, 8:17 am
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
Clearly visas are only required if an individual doesn't have a right to work here. If the flights are operated by EU pilots and crew there is no need for a work visa or for the Home Office/DoT to get involved.

There is however a need for the CAA to agree to the leasing arrangement. Obviously it follows that if the CAA refuses to approve the arrangement the rest is all irrelevant anyway.
Exactly right.
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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:05 am
  #66  
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Qatari crew who are part of a wet lease don't need EU work visas any more than the Emirati crew flying Athens to NYC or the Kuwaiti crew flying London to New York do.

If it's approved they are flying a Qatari registered aircraft on a route the CAA has allowed, visas arent required. Different if they were flying on BA airframes, but that isn't happening.
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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:10 am
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
That's interesting. Do you know if they are wet-leasing them Jumbodriver?
Please tell me that Jumbodriver isn't a Uber-like crowdsourcing app where you can log on and order passenger jets.

EDIT: Ah, when I read your post my strained brain put a 'for' between 'them' and 'Jumbodriver'. Jumbodriver is a user in this thread. Phew.

Off to start coding up an Uber-like app/server for passenger jets...

Last edited by OccasionalFlyerPerson; Jun 23, 17 at 10:02 am
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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:10 am
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Jumbodriver View Post
Qatari crew who ate wet leased don't need EU work visas any more than the Emirati crew flying Athens to NYC or the Kuwaiti crew flying London to New York do.

If it's approved they are flying a Qatari registered aircraft on a route the CAA has allowed, visas arent required.
Wouldn't the QR crew be based in the UK for the 2 week strike duration and therefore require a right to work in the UK? Don't non-EEA passport holders require a visa to work in the UK?

With EK Athens to NYC or the Kuwait example they are just transiting surely so that's different?
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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:10 am
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Originally Posted by Jumbodriver View Post
Qatari crew who are part of a wet lease don't need EU work visas any more than the Emirati crew flying Athens to NYC or the Kuwaiti crew flying London to New York do.

If it's approved they are flying a Qatari registered aircraft on a route the CAA has allowed, visas arent required. Different if they were flying on BA airframes, but that isn't happening.
But isn't the point that they would be based on London for the period of the wet-lease, not based in Qatar.

Wouldn't they therefore need some sort of longer-than-normal entry visa for the duration of their stay?
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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:25 am
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As an aside, it's interesting to see so many posts about whether or not QR staff can work in the UK. We're still in the EU for another 20+ months, so there'll be hundreds if not thousands of QR staff who won't need a work permit!
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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:32 am
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Wouldn't the QR crew be based in the UK for the 2 week strike duration and therefore require a right to work in the UK? Don't non-EEA passport holders require a visa to work in the UK?
You do know that hundreds if not thousands of QR crew are EU passport holders right? Every flight I've been on with them has had Central European crew members, plus I've seen a smattering of Western European / Nordics crew.
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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:34 am
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post
But isn't the point that they would be based on London for the period of the wet-lease, not based in Qatar.

Wouldn't they therefore need some sort of longer-than-normal entry visa for the duration of their stay?
No. They are working on a Qatari aircraft, not on UK soil. It is up to the aviation authorities to approve or deny the wet lease.

We didn't have Kenyan work visas when we used to spend 7 days in Nairobi doing daily shuttles to third countries, nor do the Philippine airlines crew who spend lengthy periods in Vancouver doing daily flights to the US have Canadian work permits.

​​​​​​Aviation and shipping are different to other industries regarding immigration laws. You need to be able to work in the state of registry not the destination.

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Old Jun 23, 17, 9:37 am
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by Jumbodriver View Post
Qatari crew who are part of a wet lease don't need EU work visas any more than the Emirati crew flying Athens to NYC or the Kuwaiti crew flying London to New York do.

If it's approved they are flying a Qatari registered aircraft on a route the CAA has allowed, visas arent required. Different if they were flying on BA airframes, but that isn't happening.
Not convinced by that. UK Immigration rules state that entry is allowed if:

1. are operating crew (including stewards and stewardesses);
2. are holding their licences or valid crew members’ certificates or passports; and
3. are departing, as a member of the crew, on the same aircraft from the airport at which they arrived or within seven days on another aircraft (crew intending to stay longer than seven days must have entry clearance.
4. Those who wish to extend their stay after entry must apply in the UK for leave to remain).


My reading of that is that there is a complete difference between crew that are based elsewhere and having a layover here between flights, and people using UK as their base which would be the case if the aircraft were operating from a base here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public.../aircrew-crm02
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Old Jun 23, 17, 10:00 am
  #74  
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
Not convinced by that. UK Immigration rules state that entry is allowed if:

1. are operating crew (including stewards and stewardesses);
2. are holding their licences or valid crew members’ certificates or passports; and
3. are departing, as a member of the crew, on the same aircraft from the airport at which they arrived or within seven days on another aircraft (crew intending to stay longer than seven days must have entry clearance.
4. Those who wish to extend their stay after entry must apply in the UK for leave to remain).


My reading of that is that there is a complete difference between crew that are based elsewhere and having a layover here between flights, and people using UK as their base which would be the case if the aircraft were operating from a base here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public.../aircrew-crm02
They will be departing the next day. There's nothing to prevent them arriving again that day, or the next. They just cant stay for longer than 7 days between flights without permission.

I'm sure they will actually position in from DOH and then be flying every day in a work block. This will mean possibly staying overnight at LHR or maybe somewhere else in Europe and then position back to Qatar at the end of a work block (which is likely to be 7 days or less anyway).

Last edited by Jumbodriver; Jun 23, 17 at 10:09 am
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Old Jun 23, 17, 10:31 am
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
Logically Qatar would staff short-haul with local crew (and you can only work on an aircraft type on which you have been trained).
I would be surprised if QR employed many (any!?) Qatari crew.
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