BA Meals - Complimentary?

Old Jun 18, 17, 9:05 pm
  #91  
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I think in U.S. small claims court, OP may have a decent argument to get some type of refund for his trip - perhaps the difference between what he paid and and the WT fare --

I think the argument would be along the lines that this is what OP bought - direct from BA's website

https://www.britishairways.com/en-us...ess/club-world

and what OP got was a dirty seat, with spilled liquids and nothing to eat for 10 + hours - and that when BA had a chance to even serve him a veg. breakfast, they choose not to offer it to OP first.

In Small Claims court BA will have to send somebody to represent itself -- and I believe in Small Claims Court there is sometimes a hearing before the 'trial.' In other words, if OP paid $3,000 for CW based on the shangri-la BA promises in its ad and is asking for say $500 or $750 back based on having to sit in a dirty seat and not be fed for 10 hours - a judge could sympathize with that type of argument, particularly if OP showed that BA charges say $350 or $500 for a WT seat on the same flight.


It also could be that BA just doesn't send somebody to represent itself -- I've had at least 2 friends i know that sued in small claims court and won simply because the big company they were suing never sent anybody to represent themselves.

Judges I believe value fact-based arguments that are well documented and print outs from BA's website on what they promise for the CW experience would speak to that point, as well as the difference in fare OP paid from WT to CW to buy that experience.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:32 am
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Originally Posted by haroon145 View Post
the compensation is for the lack of cleanliness which is a problem travelling in cw due to the lack of storage space and catering issues
So, I'm not clear where you're based and I only have experience of this in the UK, but my opinion is you'll have precisely zero luck seeking compensation for lack of cleanliness based on the pictures you've posted.

If the seat was sufficiently dirty that it soiled your clothes or similar then you'd have a clear case (for dry cleaning bills or replacement if that was not possible) but what you've shown is a small amount of uncollected rubbish and some (appears to be dried) liquid in the bottom of a bin which likely didn't affect you materially.

Also, did you ask to move to another seat?

I'm not saying it's acceptable or pleasant but I also don't think it's grounds for demanding compensation. If you feel strongly then complaining to BA and making clear you would avoid their service in future is probably the only real avenue open to you here (and frankly, unless you have status or are a frequent customer then they may just shrug and give you the 'sorry you feel that way' email)

I'd stick to the meal if I was you as that's a more concrete failure to deliver something, though again, if you went to small claims and BA said 'we offered you a special meal compatible with your dietary requirements and you declined' then you might well get nothing.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:36 am
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
I think in U.S. small claims court, OP may have a decent argument to get some type of refund for his trip - perhaps the difference between what he paid and and the WT fare --
Well, my experience is entirely in the UK but that sounds insane to me. The seat wasn't dirty, the storage lockers were. They apparently offered him a special meal after his specific meal wasn't loaded but he declined it as it didn't look nice. He still got a flat bed seat for the trip.

In the UK through CEDR or maybe MCOL later, he has a fair chance of 10k avios or maybe £100 for value of two meals and a gesture towards the cleanliness issue but claiming for difference between J and W fares would get you laughed out of the room (and genuinely, seriously, diminish your claim by being obviously unreasonable)
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:50 am
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post
One doesn't need to be a lawyer to tell you that argument has no value in court. But yes, as a lawyer, I can tell you it has no value in court.

The meal is part of the contract.
I am inclined to agree with this but if a claim is to be made, should it not be based on actual damages incurred?

Passengers travelling between LAX and LHR in Club are offered food
- a starter and side salad with a choice of bakery items from the bread basket
- a main course with a further choice of bakery items from the bread basket
- cheese and biscuits
- a dessert
- fresh fruit
- self service items from the Club Kitchen
- breakfast starter (muesli or fresh fruit) with a choice of bakery items
- main course breakfast

As passengers are perfectly entitled to turn down any or all of the above offerings, I am struggling to quantify the value of the actual damages incurred above zero.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 1:57 am
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Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
I am inclined to agree with this but if a claim is to be made, should it not be based on actual damages incurred.
Indeed I am not saying OP would be entitled to much or even anything here - especially as the special meal issue is more complicated and he was actually offered a meal anyway.

My post was simply about the general argument that BA twitter peddled with BoB and seemingly again here, that 'food is complimentary and therefore you are not entitled to it'. That is clearly rubbish.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 2:40 am
  #96  
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Looks like a tissue to me in the side bin. Like someone else said, there would be a string. Furthermore, even if it were a tampon, it appears unused/clean so is essentially compressed cotton. Obviously it shouldn't be there and should have been cleaned up, but it's hardly the end of the world. Nor is a wrapped sanitary pad or sticky spilled coke (e.g.). The OP was in no way impacted by this beyond having to pick up the pad and throw it away before using the drawer. Doesn't seem to be a basis for compensation to me. However, it might be worth pursuing it anyway as BA wil have to fight back and if enough people are bothering them about cleaning, they might decide to do something to improve teh situation.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 3:27 am
  #97  
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
I think in U.S. small claims court, OP may have a decent argument to get some type of refund for his trip - perhaps the difference between what he paid and and the WT fare --

I think the argument would be along the lines that this is what OP bought - direct from BA's website

https://www.britishairways.com/en-us...ess/club-world

and what OP got was a dirty seat, with spilled liquids and nothing to eat for 10 + hours - and that when BA had a chance to even serve him a veg. breakfast, they choose not to offer it to OP first.

In Small Claims court BA will have to send somebody to represent itself -- and I believe in Small Claims Court there is sometimes a hearing before the 'trial.' In other words, if OP paid $3,000 for CW based on the shangri-la BA promises in its ad and is asking for say $500 or $750 back based on having to sit in a dirty seat and not be fed for 10 hours - a judge could sympathize with that type of argument, particularly if OP showed that BA charges say $350 or $500 for a WT seat on the same flight.


It also could be that BA just doesn't send somebody to represent itself -- I've had at least 2 friends i know that sued in small claims court and won simply because the big company they were suing never sent anybody to represent themselves.

Judges I believe value fact-based arguments that are well documented and print outs from BA's website on what they promise for the CW experience would speak to that point, as well as the difference in fare OP paid from WT to CW to buy that experience.
You are more likely to see a flying pig than a court provide that kind of relief. The OP has not established a bona fide claim as yet, yes there were lapses in the service standard but as yet he has not established a convincing claim.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 3:29 am
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post
Indeed I am not saying OP would be entitled to much or even anything here - especially as the special meal issue is more complicated and he was actually offered a meal anyway.

My post was simply about the general argument that BA twitter peddled with BoB and seemingly again here, that 'food is complimentary and therefore you are not entitled to it'. That is clearly rubbish.
I concur.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 3:43 am
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
You are more likely to see a flying pig than a court provide that kind of relief. The OP has not established a bona fide claim as yet, yes there were lapses in the service standard but as yet he has not established a convincing claim.
Do you happen to be a small claims court judge in the U.S.?

If not, what is the basis that or your opinion?

If you get a dirty room at a hotel, stay in that hotel as you don't feel you have an alternative - as one would on a plane - and don't get satisfactory relief from the management for a refund, typical advice is to file in Small Claims Court.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 3:54 am
  #100  
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
Do you happen to be a small claims court judge in the U.S.?

If not, what is the basis that or your opinion?

If you get a dirty room at a hotel, stay in that hotel as you don't feel you have an alternative - as one would on a plane - and don't get satisfactory relief from the management for a refund, typical advice is to file in Small Claims Court.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to share your basis in law for asserting that the OP is entitled to the difference in the Club World fare and the World Traveller fare? I'm afraid making such a wild claim is nonsense and will not assist the OP in resolving his issue.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 3:54 am
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Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
I am inclined to agree with this but if a claim is to be made, should it not be based on actual damages incurred?

Passengers travelling between LAX and LHR in Club are offered food
- a starter and side salad with a choice of bakery items from the bread basket
- a main course with a further choice of bakery items from the bread basket
- cheese and biscuits
- a dessert
- fresh fruit
- self service items from the Club Kitchen
- breakfast starter (muesli or fresh fruit) with a choice of bakery items
- main course breakfast

As passengers are perfectly entitled to turn down any or all of the above offerings, I am struggling to quantify the value of the actual damages incurred above zero.

So when a seat is broken - how do you value that?

BA advertises a specific experience with CW - It's really up to the judge to value what wasn't delivered and the value of having to sit for 10+ hours in a filthy seat.

The value is probably somewhere between a Y fare and the CW fare OP paid.

If OP used miles, he should establish their value by bringing to court a printout of how much BA sells Avios to the public for -- That will establish a monetary value of what the seat cost him vs. a Y seat.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 3:59 am
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Perhaps you would be kind enough to share your basis in law for asserting that the OP is entitled to the difference in the Club World fare and the World Traveller fare? I'm afraid making such a wild claim is nonsense and will not assist the OP in resolving his issue.
A judge will want to know what were the damages -- The OP needs to make an assessment. The judge will decide whether it's reasonable or not.

This is worth a read -- UK law by the way - "Loss of Enjoyment"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/co...rd-hotels.html
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Old Jun 19, 17, 4:07 am
  #103  
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler View Post
So when a seat is broken - how do you value that?

BA advertises a specific experience with CW - It's really up to the judge to value what wasn't delivered and the value of having to sit for 10+ hours in a filthy seat.

The value is probably somewhere between a Y fare and the CW fare OP paid.

If OP used miles, he should establish their value by bringing to court a printout of how much BA sells Avios to the public for -- That will establish a monetary value of what the seat cost him vs. a Y seat.
The onus is on the Claimant (Plaintiff) to prove his claim and to establish quantum, it's not for the judge to establish the value of a claim.

There is no suggestion the OP's seat was broken or that his seat was filthy, I'm sure if it were the case we would have been told. What we do know is there was a wrapped, unopened sanitary item in one drawer (no big deal) and some spilt substance inside the side cupboard (likely coke it should have been cleaned up, but it wasn't but the OP has not suffered any loss as a result).

We are also told the OP missed out on a vegetarian meal. We also know that he refused a vegetarian meal because it was not to his liking. How is any of this worth the difference in a business class fare and an economy class fare? You offer the OP wholly unrealistic expectations.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 5:13 am
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Just another thought, when I have travelled with BA in the past and they didn't have my special meal in the cabin I was travelling they would try to find something else from another cabin.

When years ago I did weekly travel with BA, occasionally they failed to pick it up from my customer profile but they always manged to offer me something. OK it may have been more fruit & bread than normal but at least I got fed, which I was happy with!

In terms of claiming Avios I did manage to achieve a 50k credit after I was served a special meal from LAX>LHR with plastic cutlery in CW rather than metal. That was years ago and I was probably considered worthy of the credit given my annual BA spend at that time.
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Old Jun 19, 17, 5:17 am
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Ziz View Post
Looks like a tissue to me in the side bin.
There is no doubt from the picture it is a compressed facial tissue, not a tampon. And the liquid in both cases is some sort of spilled drink... cola or coffee, or similar.

Perhaps unfortunately, the meal issue and the argument for compensation in general, has been diminished or lost on the customer relations team in the hyperbole of tampons and urine?

Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
We are also told the OP missed out on a vegetarian meal. We also know that he refused a vegetarian meal because it was not to his liking.
I could be wrong but my reading was not that food wasn't available for breakfast, just the hot vegetarian option was not available (post #77 ). Were there other options such as the cereal and pastries offered and available? (Not that that makes up entirely for the lack of special meal, but it means the OP didn't have to go completely without.)

Last edited by LHR/MEL/Europe FF; Jun 19, 17 at 5:22 am
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