BA vs Ryanair - no competition

Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:21 am
  #1  
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BA vs Ryanair - no competition

Since the introduction of BoB, it has been very easy to make comparisons between BA and LCCs. I thought the same and instead of going on a European city break with BA via LHR, I decided to book a flight to Warsaw direct from NCL with Ryanair.

How wrong I was to think that they're practically the same these days.

The Ryanair planes were uncomfortable, the food was shocking, the coffee was dire and the service was mediocre. For example, when I joined the queue for the toilets on the outbound journey, the most senior member of cabin crew ordered "Move out of my way!" when I forgot to read her mind about where she wanted to be standing to chat to her colleague. After that came the hard sell when it was BoB time - ordering a cup of coffee without buying a snack was unheard of, apparently: "But you need something sweet with your hot drink. Chocolate, maybe?" Obviously their bonus depends on upsetting.

And of course, when we landed, there was another hour in an Uber to actually get to Warsaw, as Ryanair don't fly to the main airport.

BA's service standards set it apart from LCCs and I think I am willing to pay a premium for a more pleasant and comfortable journey. Plus, there isn't an announcement for bloody scratchcards every 10 minutes.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:26 am
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Oh dear. I refuse to fly with an airline that won't give their pilots a cup of tea and don't employ CC (once they get through the being employed by an agent stage) on local contracts because the emplpyee protection law is too great, let alone the taking are legal minimum fuel PR disaster.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:36 am
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Am I traveling on different Ryanair flights?

I can't remember the last time I heard more than *one* scratchcard announcement. I also find their coffee quite nice.

As for an hour from the town - well, obviously each location is different, but certainly Ryanair are close enough at enough airports. Further, since I'd have to connect at London, adding several hours to my journey, I don't see an hour to the town as a big deal (not that I've encountered many Ryanair destinations so far out)
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:43 am
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There's multiple differences which aren't always clear with Low Cost Carriers. Best to try and quantify.

1) They are not always very low fares, low cost does not mean that. Flybe, Jet2 and Wizzair often have the regionals locked up so a Budapest from BHX or MAN is pretty much the price of BA via LHR. Ryanair can be very low fare, like 15 to Glasgow at short notice, so are more likely to be low fares.

2) The lowest fares, if they have them, are leaving early in the morning (pre public transport, so drive and parking, taxi or hotel overnight) and arriving late at night/early in the morning. However, you'll see the same thing with BA at Gatwick for their lowest fares, just not the same level of lowest fares.

3) Only Ryanair really does the fake airport thing. The rest at least seem to aim for the right airport. Bear that in mind, of course.

4) Hold luggage being paid for doesn't mean its a great service. They rarely man the desks with many people (and usually airport staff in remote airports), and don't open checkout until two hours out. So you can easily spend an hour checking your bag in because of the queue. The remote end and pickup is no better, often you're the last one processed having paid the least for the baggage handlers and don't be surprised if it passes an hour before your bags arrive. This seems to be across a few low cost carriers, and it gets worse late at night too.

5) Sometimes the food is actually nice, because you've paid for it. The ploughmans on flybe for instance is quite excellent.

6) They often enforce priority boarding and seat assignment because they are paid. Ryanair has recently been accused of deliberately seating unreserved seats badly, like in middle seat. A recent flight with them had really quite high prices for even normal seating reservations, 4 for an aisle seat at the back, I paid 6 for aisle seat middle of the plane. Easyjet got me one near the front for 4, wizzair would charge 2-3 for near the front. But once you're in, you might well not be allowed to move. You've paid the cheapest price and I think this is where the likes of Ryanair really show that a decent flight involves something more than the basic dare.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:45 am
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Originally Posted by IMetThePieMan
instead of going on a European city break with BA via LHR, I decided to book a flight to Warsaw direct from NCL with Ryanair.

Originally Posted by IMetThePieMan
And of course, when we landed, there was another hour in an Uber to actually get to Warsaw, as Ryanair don't fly to the main airport.
I can't reconcile these too statements I'm afraid. On the one hand you're criticising Ryanair for using smaller and more remote airports, whilst acknowledging that with BA you'd have to get yourself from Newcastle to Heathrow with the potential fun and games of a transfer there.

Last time I looked, Newcastle wasn't particularly local to London either.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:47 am
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BoB hasn't had much of an impact for my wife and I as we have lounge access because of the Gold Card so we just eat there and take a plastic bottle of water on board with us but we recently used RyanAir for a positioning flight on the way to Brussels and although it was cheap it never really worked out that way.

Basically I am not going to lie if you have the option of a direct route with RyanAir and you are HBO and the cost is peanuts then I will book RyanAir for short haul there is no sense paying BA if they are significantly more expensive when its only an hour or two HOWEVER.

We got stung as we never realised in the Belgium case that although they say Brussels they dont tell you that its actually a smaller airport at the opposite side of the city that needs a bus and a train to connect to. Therefore we were 25 + 10 each to get to the other airport which then evaporated any cost savings we had originally made by not booking with BA. The hidden non flight costs that are associated with RyanAir are worth considering.

In regards to the flight itself. The CC are definitely not to the same standard as BA and the cost of the onboard BoB is pretty expensive considering it's quality (Which is poor) Don't even start me on the scratchcards or that stupid fanfare they play on landing.

However they do appear to me more punctual than BA
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:48 am
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Oh yes, and the ryanair business plus fare can actually be good value. A pre ex-Dub flight from BHX was sold about 3 more than the sale fare plus luggage in the hold, around 60 each way.

For that you got luggage in the hold, priority check in at the airport (walk to front of 300 ryanair passengers and you get a proper seethe), priority security, priority boarding, extra legroom seats and flexible changes up to 1.5 hours before the flight. Quite useful if going from BHX on an ex DUB.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 3:56 am
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Originally Posted by IMetThePieMan
And of course, when we landed, there was another hour in an Uber to actually get to Warsaw, as Ryanair don't fly to the main airport.
And equally, BA doesn't fly NCL-WAW so it's an apples to oranges comparison. I'm pretty sure 40 minutes in an Uber from WMI to Warsaw is still far quicker than connecting T5-T3 at LHR.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 4:00 am
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I'm not going to disagree with what you're saying as I lean towards wanting BA to be better - misplaced loyalty! And after a couple of awful experiences I vowed never to put my family on Ryanair. But they changed and I flew them to Berlin recently and was impressed (still prefer Norwegian or Easy but they seemed to have lost the 'catch you out and screw you out of money for not following the T&C's to the letter' mentality. Ryanair had basically taken the joy out of flying and replaced it with fear and unease. Once they & BA were on the furthest parts of customer experience scale, but they are both coming together - for the better for Ryanair, for the worse for BA.

BUT - I'm based in London. You're flying Newcastle to Warsaw for a weekend away? Here are the quickest times I see on each respective airline:

06 June (next Ryanair flight)
FR 4532 NCLWMI 0835 1205
or
BA 1325 NCLLHR 0900 1020
BA 850 LHRWAW 1350 1715

09 June
FR4531 WMI NCL 0730 0900
or
BA 847 WAWLHR 1145 1330
BA 1336 LHRNCL 1815 1930

That's a massive amount of time wasted? Even if Ryanair's airport is in Ukraine or whereever - surely Ryanair is a no brainer

You've also got T3-T5 on Warsaw flights.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 4:06 am
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I thought BA and Ryanair both sell the Lavazza coffee? Or has it changed?
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 4:12 am
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Originally Posted by fife
Am I traveling on different Ryanair flights?

I can't remember the last time I heard more than *one* scratchcard announcement. I also find their coffee quite nice.
Indeed. I've started using RyanAIr recently to Eindhoven. They announce the service, and then go up the aisle with the trolley. Pretty similar to BA these days I presume?

No hard sell.

Perfectly pleasant staff IME. They seem to be a bit different from EasyJet in that the staff are not local (other than on the flight deck) - even though it's a MAN based aircraft. The flight generally seems to have Spanish cabin crew - with the occasional Brit/Irish.
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 4:13 am
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Originally Posted by Smid
There's multiple differences which aren't always clear with Low Cost Carriers. Best to try and quantify.

...
2) The lowest fares, if they have them, are leaving early in the morning (pre public transport, so drive and parking, taxi or hotel overnight) and arriving late at night/early in the morning. However, you'll see the same thing with BA at Gatwick for their lowest fares, just not the same level of lowest fares.


To be fair LGW has public transport from London 24 hours- I've often caught a train after a 2am finsih at work and then an early morning BA flight. Not sure about the smaller London airports... anyone any experience of getting a 6am FR flight?

Last edited by navylad; Jun 2, 2017 at 4:18 am
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 4:13 am
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Originally Posted by cgtechuk
We got stung as we never realised in the Belgium case that although they say Brussels they dont tell you that its actually a smaller airport at the opposite side of the city that needs a bus and a train to connect to. Therefore we were 25 + 10 each to get to the other airport which then evaporated any cost savings we had originally made by not booking with BA. The hidden non flight costs that are associated with RyanAir are worth considering.
I am no expert on the remoteness of some of the cities which Ryanair calls a city, but calling Charleroi "Brussels" is about the same as calling Luton or Stansted airport "London" airports.

The big difference is that there is significant public transport at both the London airports, with express (though expensive) trains into the centre. Charleroi's transport seems to be Ryanair taking you by bus for a signicant price, and slower (it used to be to an irish pub in Brussels too).

However, if you start quantifying in the fact that you might well be paying for the fast and expensive route from somewhere from normal airports, like LHR or FRA, even the cheaper ones such as BRU there is 9 euros single from the airport. So it's a tad unfair to pretend that the other airport is a costless journey to the centre of town...
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 4:14 am
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Originally Posted by IMetThePieMan
Since the introduction of BoB, it has been very easy to make comparisons between BA and LCCs. I thought the same and instead of going on a European city break with BA via LHR, I decided to book a flight to Warsaw direct from NCL with Ryanair.

How wrong I was to think that they're practically the same these days.

The Ryanair planes were uncomfortable, the food was shocking, the coffee was dire and the service was mediocre. For example, when I joined the queue for the toilets on the outbound journey, the most senior member of cabin crew ordered "Move out of my way!" when I forgot to read her mind about where she wanted to be standing to chat to her colleague. After that came the hard sell when it was BoB time - ordering a cup of coffee without buying a snack was unheard of, apparently: "But you need something sweet with your hot drink. Chocolate, maybe?" Obviously their bonus depends on upsetting.

And of course, when we landed, there was another hour in an Uber to actually get to Warsaw, as Ryanair don't fly to the main airport.

BA's service standards set it apart from LCCs and I think I am willing to pay a premium for a more pleasant and comfortable journey. Plus, there isn't an announcement for bloody scratchcards every 10 minutes.
Yes BA flies to more central airports. And it has a very good FF programme. Those are the only 2 benefits, and I am lucky with ATH being the only airport in Athens, so Ryanair has to fly from there = )
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Old Jun 2, 2017, 4:16 am
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Originally Posted by navylad
To be fair LGW has public transport from London 24 hours- I've often caught a train after a 2am finsih at work and then an early morning BA flight. Not sure about the smaller London airports... anyone any experience of getting a 6am FR flight?
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