Window shades night flights (sun up)
Jun 1, 2017, 8:54 pm
#106
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1
What is the general consensus of having your window blind raised on an overnight flight. Having just traveled in F from SIN to LHR travelling in the middle pair the passenger in the adjacent window seat decided to be on his lap top all night with his window shade raised. Approx 4 hours into the flight which took off late at 00.30 we caught the sun up and it filled our part of the cabin with sunlight. The cabin crew did ask but the passenger to lower his shade but he merely dropped it a couple on inches. I found this to be a very selfish act when he could of simply used the shoulder light.
Jun 1, 2017, 9:17 pm
#107
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The Ops question was 'What is the general consensus of having your window blind raised on an overnight flight so I'd say I've focussed fairly well on the issue at hand.
Well done on getting a jacuzzi into the discusison, and someone said my view wasn't balanced!
I think the difference between airlines making a cost-free request that passengers close a blind and installing jacuzzi's on the fleet is fairly obvious. It's a fairly innocuous request to make the best of the situation as it is for the majority of passenegers, I don't think that translates as 'now we have to give everyone a pony'.
I'm using these terms because I see them used on this forum a lot by people referring to others anti-social behaviour, and I've seen some rather stern posts before about proper behavour from some of those who are now upset about being called out.
I'm afraid you don't get to pick and choose what is anti-social according to your own preferences, it's established by society and the norms of behaviour on planes. It wasn't me that decided shades should generally be down, I just happen to understand the reason for it and reluctantly agree. Which means, as I actually prefer the window but still go along with this because it is so obvious that it's pretty inconsiderate, that I find it very weak that people are claiming there is any ambiguity about this. There isn't, everyone knows and that's why you'll generally see all the shades down, particularly on flights heading east.
I do have an answer, I've explained several times, you just dont like it. The answer is that it's considered inconsiderate by the majority of people. Just like speaking on the phone too loudly in the lounge, or letting your kids run riot, or being overly demanding of crew. If you won't go along with what the majority of people consider appropriate in a social situation, and make a principle of doing so, it's yourself to have to ask quesitons of, not others, and don't be surprised if people bring up the dreaded DYKWIA, even if you think that only applies to 'other people'.
Well done on getting a jacuzzi into the discusison, and someone said my view wasn't balanced!
I think the difference between airlines making a cost-free request that passengers close a blind and installing jacuzzi's on the fleet is fairly obvious. It's a fairly innocuous request to make the best of the situation as it is for the majority of passenegers, I don't think that translates as 'now we have to give everyone a pony'.I'm using these terms because I see them used on this forum a lot by people referring to others anti-social behaviour, and I've seen some rather stern posts before about proper behavour from some of those who are now upset about being called out.
I'm afraid you don't get to pick and choose what is anti-social according to your own preferences, it's established by society and the norms of behaviour on planes. It wasn't me that decided shades should generally be down, I just happen to understand the reason for it and reluctantly agree. Which means, as I actually prefer the window but still go along with this because it is so obvious that it's pretty inconsiderate, that I find it very weak that people are claiming there is any ambiguity about this. There isn't, everyone knows and that's why you'll generally see all the shades down, particularly on flights heading east.
I do have an answer, I've explained several times, you just dont like it. The answer is that it's considered inconsiderate by the majority of people. Just like speaking on the phone too loudly in the lounge, or letting your kids run riot, or being overly demanding of crew. If you won't go along with what the majority of people consider appropriate in a social situation, and make a principle of doing so, it's yourself to have to ask quesitons of, not others, and don't be surprised if people bring up the dreaded DYKWIA, even if you think that only applies to 'other people'.
As for the OP's question I think it is fairly safe to assume that they were focusing on F given that they mention this in the post. You keep harking back to Y but freely admit yourself that eyeshades are provided by the airline in F. Why would they do this if the airline was going to require window blinds to be lowered - simply they are not going to be needed.
You also seem to have a very low threshold for what you consider to be anti social behaviour. I wouldn't consider the actions you describe as such. That does not mean I would support them are participate in such actions myself just not define them in such strong terms. Is taking s packet of crisps from the lounge ASB? What about eating them loudly on board the aircraft? If I snore should I not go to sleep in case I wake my fellow passengers? What if I have a bad case of flatulence both in terms of smells and noise? What if I am a loud nose blower or afflicted with sneezing? What if my autistic daughter has to have the window shade open? Does this mean she is anti-social? If all these are signs of ASB heaven help those gangs of feral kids who hang around street corners terrorising old ladies. They are clearly the anti-Christ.
Perhaps so we are clear you could point out all the posters who have displayed true DYKWIA behaviour on this thread?
Jun 1, 2017, 11:08 pm
#108
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As for the OP's question I think it is fairly safe to assume that they were focusing on F given that they mention this in the post. You keep harking back to Y but freely admit yourself that eyeshades are provided by the airline in F. Why would they do this if the airline was going to require window blinds to be lowered - simply they are not going to be needed.
Exactly this. If my window bothers you, use the eyeshades, just like if your crying baby bothers me, I'll be using the earplugs.
Jun 2, 2017, 12:20 am
#109
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
Another vote for eye shades. The blind is in the control of the occupier of the window seat.
Personally if I'd like the blind open but most other blinds are closed then I will just open it a small crack so I can see out enough. Whilst I believe it would be acceptable to have it wide open, I want to rub along with others OK too - we're all together in a confined space, so that's my idea of a compromise.
If there is direct glare onto another passenger, it is a different matter and I would be happy to close the blind until the angle of the sun has changed.
Personally if I'd like the blind open but most other blinds are closed then I will just open it a small crack so I can see out enough. Whilst I believe it would be acceptable to have it wide open, I want to rub along with others OK too - we're all together in a confined space, so that's my idea of a compromise.
If there is direct glare onto another passenger, it is a different matter and I would be happy to close the blind until the angle of the sun has changed.
Jun 2, 2017, 12:25 am
#110
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Jun 2, 2017, 12:38 am
#111
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Far more annoying is day flight and shades down. Had this back from DOH on a 2pm departure the other week and I was the only person who kept putting my shade up when the crew kept putting them all down.
Jun 2, 2017, 12:56 am
#112
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Jun 2, 2017, 1:05 am
#113
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Some folks choose the window seat in order to have access to the shade because they are claustrophobic. If it's closed, they feel boxed in. Have you ever sat next to someone on a long flight who was experiencing such anxiety? Let them control the shade....put on the eye mask.
Jun 2, 2017, 2:58 am
#114
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I'm surprised by the strength of feeling and extent to which this has descended into personal attacks!
Addressing the question: let's start from the premise that there will be individuals with competing desires within the cabin, and see how we can best mediate those.
You have those individuals who sit next to the window, and would like the window shade up. Reasons include: (a) acclimatizing to the appropriate time zone (which is not necessarily the time zone of destination); (b) watching the scenery; (b) avoiding the feeling of being boxed in; (d) reading with natural, rather than artificial light.
Then, there are others who would like the window shade down. Reasons include: (a) sleeping is clearly easier in the dark, on average; and (b) glare of sun into eyes/on entertainment screen.
How to balance these competing desires? Broadly, the desires of those in the "shades open" group cannot be met with the shades closed. The desires of sub-group (a) in "shades closed" group can, broadly, be met by the provision/use of good quality eye shades while the shades remain open. The desires of sub-group (b) cannot.
So, the conclusion (which many of the "shades open" group upthread seem to have arrived at) is that they would not generally close it for sleep purposes, but would close if it were affecting someone else's use of the TV/was shining into their eyes due to the specific angle of the sun.
[I accept there may be some individuals for whom eye shades are uncomfortable. This then makes the ability of the desires of sub-group (a) of the "closed" group to be met while also meeting the desires of the "open" group becomes harder. I am not sure of (i) how prevalent this group is (in my experience watching the number of individuals using sleep masks, not that common), or (ii) how much discomfort this causes. Empirically this is a challenging question to answer; I certainly don't have the data to hand. But perhaps the answer remains as above, but that where there is an individual who finds it truly challenging to sleep with an eye shade and cannot sleep with the window open and without a shade, a passenger in the "open" group should be willing to entertain a request for closure in that scenario (as the needs of that "closed" sub-sub group could not also be met at the same time as the "open" group).]
That ended up being longer than I intended.
Addressing the question: let's start from the premise that there will be individuals with competing desires within the cabin, and see how we can best mediate those.
You have those individuals who sit next to the window, and would like the window shade up. Reasons include: (a) acclimatizing to the appropriate time zone (which is not necessarily the time zone of destination); (b) watching the scenery; (b) avoiding the feeling of being boxed in; (d) reading with natural, rather than artificial light.
Then, there are others who would like the window shade down. Reasons include: (a) sleeping is clearly easier in the dark, on average; and (b) glare of sun into eyes/on entertainment screen.
How to balance these competing desires? Broadly, the desires of those in the "shades open" group cannot be met with the shades closed. The desires of sub-group (a) in "shades closed" group can, broadly, be met by the provision/use of good quality eye shades while the shades remain open. The desires of sub-group (b) cannot.
So, the conclusion (which many of the "shades open" group upthread seem to have arrived at) is that they would not generally close it for sleep purposes, but would close if it were affecting someone else's use of the TV/was shining into their eyes due to the specific angle of the sun.
[I accept there may be some individuals for whom eye shades are uncomfortable. This then makes the ability of the desires of sub-group (a) of the "closed" group to be met while also meeting the desires of the "open" group becomes harder. I am not sure of (i) how prevalent this group is (in my experience watching the number of individuals using sleep masks, not that common), or (ii) how much discomfort this causes. Empirically this is a challenging question to answer; I certainly don't have the data to hand. But perhaps the answer remains as above, but that where there is an individual who finds it truly challenging to sleep with an eye shade and cannot sleep with the window open and without a shade, a passenger in the "open" group should be willing to entertain a request for closure in that scenario (as the needs of that "closed" sub-sub group could not also be met at the same time as the "open" group).]
That ended up being longer than I intended.
Last edited by adamkenneth; Jun 2, 2017 at 2:59 am Reason: "down" for "up". Not quarks.
Jun 2, 2017, 3:09 am
#115
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
If only life were that black and white.
I imagine demand for windows significantly outstrips supply bearing in mind only +/- 2 in 8 seats in the dorm and 2 in 9 in economy are windows, and most people hate the centre seats anyway...
I imagine demand for windows significantly outstrips supply bearing in mind only +/- 2 in 8 seats in the dorm and 2 in 9 in economy are windows, and most people hate the centre seats anyway...
Jun 2, 2017, 3:14 am
#116
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: BRU
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As someone has already mentioned this is one of the things that really annoys me on the 268 (LAX-LHR). 9:35pm departure and 4:05 arrival.
I always lower mine for the first 6-7 hours of the flight, but when it starts to get to 2pm local time I really don't think it's unreasonable to open the shade. So depressing sitting in a dark cabin during the day.
But yes, a little common courtesy can go a long way.
I always lower mine for the first 6-7 hours of the flight, but when it starts to get to 2pm local time I really don't think it's unreasonable to open the shade. So depressing sitting in a dark cabin during the day.
But yes, a little common courtesy can go a long way.
Jun 2, 2017, 8:12 am
#117
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You really should revisit the definition of DYKWIA. I don't believe anybody on here has remotely demonstrated such behaviour. The closest anybody has come is yourself with mention of how much you have flown.
As for the OP's question I think it is fairly safe to assume that they were focusing on F given that they mention this in the post. You keep harking back to Y but freely admit yourself that eyeshades are provided by the airline in F. Why would they do this if the airline was going to require window blinds to be lowered - simply they are not going to be needed.
You also seem to have a very low threshold for what you consider to be anti social behaviour. I wouldn't consider the actions you describe as such. That does not mean I would support them are participate in such actions myself just not define them in such strong terms. Is taking s packet of crisps from the lounge ASB? What about eating them loudly on board the aircraft? If I snore should I not go to sleep in case I wake my fellow passengers? What if I have a bad case of flatulence both in terms of smells and noise? What if I am a loud nose blower or afflicted with sneezing? What if my autistic daughter has to have the window shade open? Does this mean she is anti-social? If all these are signs of ASB heaven help those gangs of feral kids who hang around street corners terrorising old ladies. They are clearly the anti-Christ.
Perhaps so we are clear you could point out all the posters who have displayed true DYKWIA behaviour on this thread?
As for the OP's question I think it is fairly safe to assume that they were focusing on F given that they mention this in the post. You keep harking back to Y but freely admit yourself that eyeshades are provided by the airline in F. Why would they do this if the airline was going to require window blinds to be lowered - simply they are not going to be needed.
You also seem to have a very low threshold for what you consider to be anti social behaviour. I wouldn't consider the actions you describe as such. That does not mean I would support them are participate in such actions myself just not define them in such strong terms. Is taking s packet of crisps from the lounge ASB? What about eating them loudly on board the aircraft? If I snore should I not go to sleep in case I wake my fellow passengers? What if I have a bad case of flatulence both in terms of smells and noise? What if I am a loud nose blower or afflicted with sneezing? What if my autistic daughter has to have the window shade open? Does this mean she is anti-social? If all these are signs of ASB heaven help those gangs of feral kids who hang around street corners terrorising old ladies. They are clearly the anti-Christ.
Perhaps so we are clear you could point out all the posters who have displayed true DYKWIA behaviour on this thread?
My point being, to use less provocative language, that I do find it a bit rude, and rather discourteous, when people say things like 'if you want control of the window shade pick the choose the window seat', or that they will refuse crew requests that are the benefit of everyone. Choosing the window seat gives you an advantage, and one I enjoy, but also something of a responsibility I feel to be aware of those around you. I wouldn't want to be responsible for keeping people awake, whom I have no idea what time zone they are on, how long they have been traveling etc. etc.
To me it is common sense that when the entire plane is lowering its shades, I should too. I'm not saying this apples to every flight, obviously on day time flights west it isn't really necessary. But some seem to take the attitude that they will always decide based on what suits them without any consideration of others around them. It is also worth mentioning that one window can pretty well illuminate a whole cabin so I don't think lowerring it if you can see someone near you who's eyes the sun is shining directly into really cuts it.
I am well aware that I have flown far less than probably most contributors to this thread, after all I've been peaking mostly about economy. So I think we can safely rule out DYKWIA on that front
I was just making the point that I have consistently observed the same behaviour by crew and passengers on all my flights, and it is clear that the preference when it makes sense ids for conditions conducive to sleep. And alas, eye masks really don't work or aren't available for everyone.I'm interested in why someone asked about airlines that dim windows in the front cabins and never came back when given answers. Always strange when people do that.
Jun 2, 2017, 8:16 am
#118
Join Date: May 2003
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Sorry, but if I'm at a window, I shouldn't have to ensure extreme light intensity in order to make up for another passenger's darker seating. What's next? Hourly seat rotations so no one feels excluded in the crowd?
It's just a flight. Not a life sentence. Somewhere between 45 mins and 14 hours of your life. It too shall pass. If your career depends on constant flying, that's a choice you've made. Learn to deal with it.
Society is becoming a pansified mess, I swear. And this coming from a progressive liberal. Every day, I'm less surprised that even the sensibles of the right-leaning are fed up with the left.
It's just a flight. Not a life sentence. Somewhere between 45 mins and 14 hours of your life. It too shall pass. If your career depends on constant flying, that's a choice you've made. Learn to deal with it.
Society is becoming a pansified mess, I swear. And this coming from a progressive liberal. Every day, I'm less surprised that even the sensibles of the right-leaning are fed up with the left.
Last edited by Grog; Jun 2, 2017 at 8:21 am
Jun 2, 2017, 8:30 am
#120
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Sorry, but if I'm at a window, I shouldn't have to ensure extreme light intensity in order to make up for another passenger's darker seating. What's next? Hourly seat rotations so no one feels excluded in the crowd?
It's just a flight. Not a life sentence. Somewhere between 45 mins and 14 hours of your life. It too shall pass. If your career depends on constant flying, that's a choice you've made. Learn to deal with it.
Society is becoming a pansified mess, I swear. And this coming from a progressive liberal. Every day, I'm less surprised that even the sensibles of the right-leaning are fed up with the left.
It's just a flight. Not a life sentence. Somewhere between 45 mins and 14 hours of your life. It too shall pass. If your career depends on constant flying, that's a choice you've made. Learn to deal with it.
Society is becoming a pansified mess, I swear. And this coming from a progressive liberal. Every day, I'm less surprised that even the sensibles of the right-leaning are fed up with the left.
need any help with that shoehorn? Not sure what this has to do with politics, plenty on the left who can be inconsiderate to others, and plenty on the right who will gladly do anything they can to avoid discomforting others. It's a public space so it's just about making it as comfortable as possible, or minimising discomfort, to the greatest extent possible. Doesn't seem a bad idea to me, in my experience most passengers seem to understand it as I've never seen anyone in a window seat complain, or a rogue window left open. If anyone does open a window they seem to be shocked and slightly panicked at how much light floods in and very quickly slam it shut again.