Window shades night flights (sun up)

Old Jun 1, 17, 2:09 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
Indeed, some are aware enough of themselves and their surroundings that they don't even need to be asked. Others will refuse even when they are asked because apparently they are special and don't need to go along with the same social norms everyone else is already following.
You really are trying to put a nice spin on anyone who says no aren't you? There are perfectly reasonable reasons to decline a polite request to lower a shade - many of those reasons mentioned in this thread. I fail to see why you only want to paint a decline as indicative of a DYKWIA type who see themselves as special, or what social norms have to do with anything.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 2:24 pm
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
You said this already and I suggested that we have been told by the cc that they have to go through the motions of asking if another passenger asks - but you are perfectly ok in saying no. I am still unsure why you see this as DYKWIA behaviour though.
Yes, we have one crew member's opinion. Against worldwide airline policy and generally stricter enforcement. Do you really think it's some huge industry conspiracy to annoy people in window seats for no reason? The airline obviously set the policy for a reason no? Why do you think it was?

Staff on other airlines I've flown tend to be considerably stricter, to be honest whether they enforce it or not to me it's common sense and common decency and I will lower my shade without being asked. Saying 'well it's not the law so I don't have to' is a little childish I would suggest. On that basis anyone causing a scene that isn't a safety risk on a plane is absolutely OK. Parents letting their kids run riot, no problem, people can put in earplugs.

I think it's DYKWIA behaviour for the same reason talking obnoxiously loud on your phone in the lounge is, or any number of other things that people consider DYKWIA that are not actually strictly forbidden but most here will consider fairly uncouth. It's called common decency. And continuing such behaviour even after being asked by crew/lounge staff to consider the impact on others I do find quite arrogant.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 2:31 pm
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
You really are trying to put a nice spin on anyone who says no aren't you? There are perfectly reasonable reasons to decline a polite request to lower a shade - many of those reasons mentioned in this thread. I fail to see why you only want to paint a decline as indicative of a DYKWIA type who see themselves as special, or what social norms have to do with anything.
I wish I could see those positive reasons as I like to enjoy the view, but my regard for others takes precedence. A shame for me but there you go. Social norms have everything to do with making public transport as pleasant experience for us all as possible. Including the crew who are put in a fairly awkward position when passengers decline their requests.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 2:45 pm
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I remember my first time in J was on LH from YUL to MUC, and as it typical we left in the evening when it was dark and arrived in Europe early in the morning. I had the window seat, had the blind up to watch takeoff and flying over the city. Then diner started and and I didn't think anything of the blind. Put the eyemaksk on and went to sleep.

I woke up as they started breakfast and mine was the only blind up in the cabin and let lots of light in. I felt bad that I had done that, but it was too late then. I was kind of surprised the crew hadn't closed the blind while I was asleep.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 2:48 pm
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I always choose window seats and keep the shades open:
(1)planes are equivalent to sardine cans, with the shade open the inside and outside merge, making the plane seem more spacious.
(2)if we are over areas (mainly land) where there are "landmarks", I find it fascinating to identify them.
(3)but (especially) for the last 30 minutes of a flt, seeing what the plane is DOING is essential. I've been on flts where pax in window seats were asked to raise them in those 30 minutes.
(4)I was once flying from LAS VEGAS to DFW, when I got to my window seat, I noticed EVERY shade was in the closed position--EXCEPT mine, it was open, I guess they knew my preferences.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 2:49 pm
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
I wish I could see those positive reasons as I like to enjoy the view, but my regard for others takes precedence. A shame for me but there you go. Social norms have everything to do with making public transport as pleasant experience for us all as possible. Including the crew who are put in a fairly awkward position when passengers decline their requests.
What if it was the other way round, and you wanted to sleep and someone asked you if you could open your window blind? By your own logic you would...

I don't understand why it's DYKWIA behaviour to make use of something that you are perfectly entitled to, and in some cases spend an extortionate amount of money to be able to. It's no secret that if you're not at the window, you might not have control over said window.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:08 pm
  #82  
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
I wish I could see those positive reasons as I like to enjoy the view, but my regard for others takes precedence. A shame for me but there you go. Social norms have everything to do with making public transport as pleasant experience for us all as possible. Including the crew who are put in a fairly awkward position when passengers decline their requests.
Regard for others? You are setting a wonderful example of this on this thread where you have been quite dismissive of others who have differing opinions. So you find eyeshades uncomfortable. I assume that in a democracy that this means all fellow travellers feel the same?
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:12 pm
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Originally Posted by ShuttleRunner View Post
What if it was the other way round, and you wanted to sleep and someone asked you if you could open your window blind? By your own logic you would...

I don't understand why it's DYKWIA behaviour to make use of something that you are perfectly entitled to, and in some cases spend an extortionate amount of money to be able to. It's no secret that if you're not at the window, you might not have control over said window.
Because the position of the window shade affects everyone in the cabin, just like the light switch. It is therefore not left to the control of the individual in the window seat, hence why on the 787 cabin crew have an override button which they make use of on most airlines I've been on. Nowhere when you select a window seat does the airline tell you this gives you control of the window and that is not what the extortionate amount that you are spending is buying. Just as someone in an aisle seat does not have control of the aisle do they?
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:22 pm
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
Regard for others? You are setting a wonderful example of this on this thread where you have been quite dismissive of others who have differing opinions. So you find eyeshades uncomfortable. I assume that in a democracy that this means all fellow travellers feel the same?
I haven't been dismissive, just asked why some feel it's OK to refuse crew instructions and ignore what everyone else on the plane manages to do without a fuss? I am intrigued by those who in other threads love to judge DYKWIA behaviour and people ignoring crew or behaving with no regard for others, who suddenly on this specific issue think its all OK.

You keep repeating a point about eyeshades which obviously doesn't work as it doesn't happen in the real world, where the fact is airlines have generally decided passengers prefer to have the shades down. You will have to explain why you think you know better and airlines are all doing this for no reason and it is perfectly OK to ignore this polite request? Several people have explained in this thread, perhaps more politely than I, the issue with light flooding in and that they will lower their shade out of courtesy to the majority who seem to want to sleep. (I believe 4/5 was the number one regular flyer quoted).

Yes I know many people that find eyeshades uncomfortable. I have no idea if its the majority. I know no-one in economy is given eyeshades, a point that for some reason you left out. The fact is keeping one window open inconveniences a lot of people, for one person's benefit. So you are asked to close the shade. You may not agree because you like the window but it is well established what the majority preference is and that you won't be too popular if you don't go along with it when everyone else on the plane manages to close their shade. Repeating the same point about eyeshades until eternity won't change that.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:23 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
Because the position of the window shade affects everyone in the cabin, just like the light switch. It is therefore not left to the control of the individual in the window seat, hence why on the 787 cabin crew have an override button which they make use of on most airlines I've been on. Nowhere when you select a window seat does the airline tell you this gives you control of the window and that is not what the extortionate amount that you are spending is buying. Just as someone in an aisle seat does not have control of the aisle do they?
Out of interest, which airlines do this in the front cabins?
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:25 pm
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
I haven't been dismissive, just asked why some feel it's OK to refuse crew instructions and ignore what everyone else on the plane manages to do without a fuss? I am intrigued by those who in other threads love to judge DYKWIA behaviour and people ignoring crew or behaving with no regard for others, who suddenly on this specific issue think its all OK.

You keep repeating a point about eyeshades which obviously doesn't work as it doesn't happen in the real world, where the fact is airlines have generally decided passengers prefer to have the shades down. You will have to explain why you think you know better and airlines are all doing this for no reason and it is perfectly OK to ignore this polite request? Several people have explained in this thread, perhaps more politely than I, the issue with light flooding in and that they will lower their shade out of courtesy to the majority who seem to want to sleep. (I believe 4/5 was the number one regular flyer quoted).

Yes I know many people that find eyeshades uncomfortable. I have no idea if its the majority. I know no-one in economy is given eyeshades, a point that for some reason you left out. The fact is keeping one window open inconveniences a lot of people, for one person's benefit. So you are asked to close the shade. You may not agree because you like the window but it is well established what the majority preference is and that you won't be too popular if you don't go along with it when everyone else on the plane manages to close their shade. Repeating the same point about eyeshades until eternity won't change that.
A request is not a crew instruction.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Those who wish to sleep can use the eye shades, I use them and they work great.
This or + 1, whichever is the correct internet way to agree!
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:33 pm
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
You will have to explain why you think you know better and airlines are all doing this for no reason and it is perfectly OK to ignore this polite request?
Taking on board a request and politely declining such request does not constitute ignoring it.

If I am on a flight where the origin and destinations are quite clearly daytime, and I have to work, why should I be classed as an ignorant DYKWIA for wanting to keep a blind open?
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Out of interest, which airlines do this in the front cabins?
United and LATAM apparently for starters I've read about it being done in front cabins, in various trip reports for United. I would suspect some Asian carriers as they tend to be quite strict about enforcing window shades. It may depend more on the crew than the airline.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1360609
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Old Jun 1, 17, 3:40 pm
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Well OK, as someone predicted, there will be no agreement on this. I though I might lend a slightly different perspective as someone who likes the window seat but understand that others comfort takes priority over mine.

Clearly others disagree so there's not much more to say, everyone's position is clear. As always everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't DYKWIA which incredibly doesn't include things they might do themselves. Only the things other people do that annoy them.

I've flown enough to know it's blindingly (pun intended) obvious what is the best solution for the majority, hence why I go along with it despite it not suiting me personally. So those refusing to do so will have to justify that to themselves, as anyone being anti-social always finds all sort of ways to do so. I personally couldn't live with the shame as someone else mentioned why they just accidentally left theirs open.
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