BA's predatory cancellation policy
#226
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,550
Well - since the 3rd one is what the passenger did on the phone call , then I take it that you accept that BA did provide honest and accurate advice
#227
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,657
The agent answered the question asked and there are people here who believe that the agent ought to have been a mind-reader and answered the question not asked.
Those who suggest that agents should go beyond the question asked and that BA ought to start sending memos out to that effect are simply going to lead to a situation where agents are trained to say, "I am not permitted to answer that because you might really mean to ask something else. If you have a question about the contract or fare rules, you should read them and you will find our answer there."
Imagine the Greek chorus of "poor BA service" then.
Those who suggest that agents should go beyond the question asked and that BA ought to start sending memos out to that effect are simply going to lead to a situation where agents are trained to say, "I am not permitted to answer that because you might really mean to ask something else. If you have a question about the contract or fare rules, you should read them and you will find our answer there."
Imagine the Greek chorus of "poor BA service" then.
Of course having not heard the conversation i wont speculate on what was or wasnt said.
#228
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Perhaps we should draft a short case study and a nice infographic to share with the world?
#229
Community Director
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Personally if it was it me i would have gave the cancellation rules. To me it would follow almost automatically that if cancellation is being discussed as an option i would give the rules. Its sharing useful knowledge that actually away from this forum a lot of people are unaware of. I mean it also leads naturally into it you could cancel but: these are the implications if you do.
Of course having not heard the conversation i wont speculate on what was or wasnt said.
Of course having not heard the conversation i wont speculate on what was or wasnt said.
We'll never definitively know what was said during the conversation, and how much the OP actually understood of what they were being told, but it might be a glimpse into the other side of the story.
#230
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,657
Given the OP hasn't contributed to this thread in a while, I think what you see in Anonba's post is arguably the closest we may get to understanding what a BA agent would most likely do in the circumstances - although equally it does sound like it's not a standard procedure, which is a massive weakness in BA's procedures. Whether that's deliberate or not I couldn't say .
We'll never definitively know what was said during the conversation, and how much the OP actually understood of what they were being told, but it might be a glimpse into the other side of the story.
We'll never definitively know what was said during the conversation, and how much the OP actually understood of what they were being told, but it might be a glimpse into the other side of the story.
#231
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This thread is great evidence that I'm entirely justified rolling my eyes whenever someone tells me that "consumers are capable of making informed choices". When most of them can't even be bothered to spend some time actually informing themselves. Such as reading fare rules.
#232
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridport, Dorset
Programs: Mucci, BA Bronze, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,125
Talking of agents advice, I worked for a hotel company many years ago and we had a few special package rates - and the cheapest was always Sunday for two nights.
One day someone called me asking for a stay for Saturday for two nights, lets say the price was GBP295. Trying be helpful, I told her that there was a special offer on Sunday which was GBP 99 for 2 nights. She booked four rooms. I think they were non refundable.
The next day, her mother called me screaming that the company had lied to them. They couldn't get flights cheap enough (because at that time there were still Saturday night stay restrictions on most flights) so she booked Saturday back Monday, and wanted the Saturday for two nights at GBP 99, not GBP 295.00, which I could not do.
Lessons:
- the initial caller couldn't even remember my name... but she remembers I sold her a dud deal.
- my advice was based on my knowledge of the product I was selling, not other aspects of what the caller needed to get there.
- as an agent I stopped making suggestions that could save people money because there were so many unknowns.
- advice you give will nearly always be misunderstood
So I see why the BA agent answered truthfully that you should cancel and rebook, without necessarily going into detail. Or, expecting the OP to call back to cancel since they'd used this method of contact before - perhaps she thought she'd get a chance to do that.
I had to apply to cancel a booking within the 24 hour window recently, and saw that screen about "BA's refund decision is final" and took fright and called them to cancel!
One day someone called me asking for a stay for Saturday for two nights, lets say the price was GBP295. Trying be helpful, I told her that there was a special offer on Sunday which was GBP 99 for 2 nights. She booked four rooms. I think they were non refundable.
The next day, her mother called me screaming that the company had lied to them. They couldn't get flights cheap enough (because at that time there were still Saturday night stay restrictions on most flights) so she booked Saturday back Monday, and wanted the Saturday for two nights at GBP 99, not GBP 295.00, which I could not do.
Lessons:
- the initial caller couldn't even remember my name... but she remembers I sold her a dud deal.
- my advice was based on my knowledge of the product I was selling, not other aspects of what the caller needed to get there.
- as an agent I stopped making suggestions that could save people money because there were so many unknowns.
- advice you give will nearly always be misunderstood
So I see why the BA agent answered truthfully that you should cancel and rebook, without necessarily going into detail. Or, expecting the OP to call back to cancel since they'd used this method of contact before - perhaps she thought she'd get a chance to do that.
I had to apply to cancel a booking within the 24 hour window recently, and saw that screen about "BA's refund decision is final" and took fright and called them to cancel!
#233
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,657
Talking of agents advice, I worked for a hotel company many years ago and we had a few special package rates - and the cheapest was always Sunday for two nights.
One day someone called me asking for a stay for Saturday for two nights, lets say the price was GBP295. Trying be helpful, I told her that there was a special offer on Sunday which was GBP 99 for 2 nights. She booked four rooms. I think they were non refundable.
The next day, her mother called me screaming that the company had lied to them. They couldn't get flights cheap enough (because at that time there were still Saturday night stay restrictions on most flights) so she booked Saturday back Monday, and wanted the Saturday for two nights at GBP 99, not GBP 295.00, which I could not do.
Lessons:
- the initial caller couldn't even remember my name... but she remembers I sold her a dud deal.
- my advice was based on my knowledge of the product I was selling, not other aspects of what the caller needed to get there.
- as an agent I stopped making suggestions that could save people money because there were so many unknowns.
- advice you give will nearly always be misunderstood
So I see why the BA agent answered truthfully that you should cancel and rebook, without necessarily going into detail. Or, expecting the OP to call back to cancel since they'd used this method of contact before - perhaps she thought she'd get a chance to do that.
I had to apply to cancel a booking within the 24 hour window recently, and saw that screen about "BA's refund decision is final" and took fright and called them to cancel!
One day someone called me asking for a stay for Saturday for two nights, lets say the price was GBP295. Trying be helpful, I told her that there was a special offer on Sunday which was GBP 99 for 2 nights. She booked four rooms. I think they were non refundable.
The next day, her mother called me screaming that the company had lied to them. They couldn't get flights cheap enough (because at that time there were still Saturday night stay restrictions on most flights) so she booked Saturday back Monday, and wanted the Saturday for two nights at GBP 99, not GBP 295.00, which I could not do.
Lessons:
- the initial caller couldn't even remember my name... but she remembers I sold her a dud deal.
- my advice was based on my knowledge of the product I was selling, not other aspects of what the caller needed to get there.
- as an agent I stopped making suggestions that could save people money because there were so many unknowns.
- advice you give will nearly always be misunderstood
So I see why the BA agent answered truthfully that you should cancel and rebook, without necessarily going into detail. Or, expecting the OP to call back to cancel since they'd used this method of contact before - perhaps she thought she'd get a chance to do that.
I had to apply to cancel a booking within the 24 hour window recently, and saw that screen about "BA's refund decision is final" and took fright and called them to cancel!
Last edited by Anonba; May 25, 2017 at 4:56 pm
#234
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridport, Dorset
Programs: Mucci, BA Bronze, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,125
Not exactly what I intended to say. More that if someone wants to stay on Saturday for two nights, why say "Actually what you should do is change your dates?"
If the caller is open to dates fine. But after 30 years in customer service - and I was good at it despite what I seem to have implied above!! - I realised the adage "no good deed goes unpunished" was pretty apt!
If the caller is open to dates fine. But after 30 years in customer service - and I was good at it despite what I seem to have implied above!! - I realised the adage "no good deed goes unpunished" was pretty apt!
#235
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 83
Imagine the whining complaining the British - who were unaware of the concept of sales tax being added at the till - could do about predatory lying checkout operators trying to rip them off in American stores because nobody proactively told them about it when they entered the shop.
Just because non-refundable doesn't actually mean that in the US, it doesn't follow that it is the same here.
Just because non-refundable doesn't actually mean that in the US, it doesn't follow that it is the same here.
#236
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: DUB/ORD/SIN/PVG
Programs: EI AerClub Concierge, EK Gold, BA Gold, BD Gold (Retired), HHonors Diamond, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold
Posts: 2,923
Imagine the whining complaining the British - who were unaware of the concept of sales tax being added at the till - could do about predatory lying checkout operators trying to rip them off in American stores because nobody proactively told them about it when they entered the shop.
Just because non-refundable doesn't actually mean that in the US, it doesn't follow that it is the same here.
Just because non-refundable doesn't actually mean that in the US, it doesn't follow that it is the same here.
If a US store opened an outlet on Oxford street and labelled its prices ex VAT you really would see some whining!
#237
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 83
However, here is the UK.
Perhaps we are just more used to the fact that non refundable means just that, and also don't expect to have our hands held to protect us from our own stupidity.
#238
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 7,543
There is a difference between getting your money back on whatever payment means you used and having credit towards a future purchase. In the UK the two have been conflated for airfares, but it doesn't mean the US more literal meaning is stupid for an American.
#239
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 83
Actually no. ""Here" non-refundable in this context means no refund and no credit. In the US it means no refund.
There is a difference between getting your money back on whatever payment means you used and having credit towards a future purchase. In the UK the two have been conflated for airfares, but it doesn't mean the US more literal meaning is stupid for an American.
There is a difference between getting your money back on whatever payment means you used and having credit towards a future purchase. In the UK the two have been conflated for airfares, but it doesn't mean the US more literal meaning is stupid for an American.
#240
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,657
As far as im aware no it isnt. BA added the further flexibility to US/Canada originating fares maybe 2-3 years ago. I think it was done so BA are in line with conpetitors as others have mentioned being able to get a credit is common practice in the US.