BA's predatory cancellation policy
May 22, 2017, 8:23 am
#136
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 16
Forgive me if it's already been stated, but the problem as I see it is not that BA has a no refund policy, it is that they say they don't offer refunds but then they actual do, albeit with an extraordinary penalty. To refuse to refund the ticket price, or at the very least offer a credit with a penalty, while still being able to resell the same seat just smacks of unjust enrichment to me. I think they'd be better off from a PR standpoint if they had a flat no refund policy similar to theater tickets or perhaps a refund if they resell the seat policy similar to hotels.
May 22, 2017, 8:28 am
#137
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
According to the OP, he was shown the amount to be refunded when he canceled online. However, rather than call BA and ask why the amount was so little (because only governmental and airport taxes were refunded), he called a friend who advised him that the difference must have been due to the exchange rate fluctuation.
May 22, 2017, 8:32 am
#138
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Edinburgh
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 9,034
Forgive me if it's already been stated, but the problem as I see it is not that BA has a no refund policy, it is that they say they don't offer refunds but then they actual do, albeit with an extraordinary penalty. To refuse to refund the ticket price, or at the very least offer a credit with a penalty, while still being able to resell the same seat just smacks of unjust enrichment to me. I think they'd be better off from a PR standpoint if they had a flat no refund policy similar to theater tickets or perhaps a refund if they resell the seat policy similar to hotels.
May 22, 2017, 8:33 am
#139
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Programs: BA Gold (ex-GGL, maybe future Silver), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,199
According to the OP, he was shown the amount to be refunded when he canceled online. However, rather than call BA and ask why the amount was so little (because only governmental and airport taxes were refunded), he called a friend who advised him that the difference must have been due to the exchange rate fluctuation.
The OP's friend made the leap saying that this was due to exchange rates, not that the actual amount to be refunded (probably <20% of the price?) was so low because of exchange rates.
May 22, 2017, 8:35 am
#140
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mexico City
Programs: Life Miles, Miles and more
Posts: 518
According to the OP, he was shown the amount to be refunded when he canceled online. However, rather than call BA and ask why the amount was so little (because only governmental and airport taxes were refunded), he called a friend who advised him that the difference must have been due to the exchange rate fluctuation.
I am quite sure if the OP had seen the value of $200 they would not have proceeded. If they actually did, then yes I have less sympathy!
May 22, 2017, 8:37 am
#141
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: near to SFO and LHR
Programs: BA Gold, B6 Mosiac, VS, AA, DL (and a legacy UA 2MM)
Posts: 2,274
Being US based for years, I also am used to the US-way of handling non-refundable cancellations: cancellations result in a calculation of "original cost less change fee" held as a credit for one year. I can apply this to a future fare.
I had a rude awaking when I discovered that this wasn't true with BA (or VS) reservations, and got burnt one or two times. One underlying problem is that BA doesn't expose the full fare rules to a purchaser - only a summary, which can be misleading or incomplete.
By the way, I recently tried to get around this by calling AA to book a BA-operated flight under its AA flight number. Same restrictions as if I had booked directly with BA. One difference though was that the AA customer service person took the time to explain this all to me before booking.
I had a rude awaking when I discovered that this wasn't true with BA (or VS) reservations, and got burnt one or two times. One underlying problem is that BA doesn't expose the full fare rules to a purchaser - only a summary, which can be misleading or incomplete.
By the way, I recently tried to get around this by calling AA to book a BA-operated flight under its AA flight number. Same restrictions as if I had booked directly with BA. One difference though was that the AA customer service person took the time to explain this all to me before booking.
May 22, 2017, 8:37 am
#142
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 308
Forgive me if it's already been stated, but the problem as I see it is not that BA has a no refund policy, it is that they say they don't offer refunds but then they actual do, albeit with an extraordinary penalty. To refuse to refund the ticket price, or at the very least offer a credit with a penalty, while still being able to resell the same seat just smacks of unjust enrichment to me. I think they'd be better off from a PR standpoint if they had a flat no refund policy similar to theater tickets or perhaps a refund if they resell the seat policy similar to hotels.
May 22, 2017, 8:52 am
#143
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 16
That's not exactly true, some tickets are non-refundable but BA must legally refund APD (minus a reasonable admin charge). In any case, I don't see how getting a little bit back is worse than getting nothing back at all? And why would it be better if all tickets were non-refundable? There's a market for both restrictive and flexible tickets so why not offer both?
May 22, 2017, 8:56 am
#144
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
I don't see where the OP said that? They said there was a disclaimer about not disputing the amount to be refunded, but nothing about being shown the amount. I assume that disclaimer would appear when BA don't show the amount in order to cover themselves against future complaints.
I am quite sure if the OP had seen the value of $200 they would not have proceeded. If they actually did, then yes I have less sympathy!
I am quite sure if the OP had seen the value of $200 they would not have proceeded. If they actually did, then yes I have less sympathy!
May 22, 2017, 9:04 am
#145
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mexico City
Programs: Life Miles, Miles and more
Posts: 518
Based on my reading of the original post, the amount was shown. The OP questioned the amount and consulted a friend. It seems that the OP could not believe that BA would not issue credit for the non-refundable portion as has been the OP's experience with U.S-based airlines. That the amount to be refunded was so low did not surprise the OP because he expected to be issued credit (or feared that it would be the worst outcome per his words). And that seems to be the OP's main grievance (that for European airlines 'non-refundable' means losing the value of the ticket).
They consulted their friend and their friend said any difference was just due to exchange rates. Do you really think they saw $200 quoted on an $1800 reservation and put this down to exchange rates and went ahead? They obviously thought there was just going to be a very small difference.
May 22, 2017, 10:15 am
#146
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,770
We'll have to wait for the OP to confirm, but I believe you are mistaken, and it seems to be the impression most contributors have had that the OP did not see the amount. The OP never referred to the amount being shown at all. Only a disclaimer.
They consulted their friend and their friend said any difference was just due to exchange rates. Do you really think they saw $200 quoted on an $1800 reservation and put this down to exchange rates and went ahead? They obviously thought there was just going to be a very small difference.
They consulted their friend and their friend said any difference was just due to exchange rates. Do you really think they saw $200 quoted on an $1800 reservation and put this down to exchange rates and went ahead? They obviously thought there was just going to be a very small difference.
May 22, 2017, 10:35 am
#147
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Programs: BA Silver, Mucci
Posts: 5,289
We'll have to wait for the OP to confirm, but I believe you are mistaken, and it seems to be the impression most contributors have had that the OP did not see the amount. The OP never referred to the amount being shown at all. Only a disclaimer.
They consulted their friend and their friend said any difference was just due to exchange rates. Do you really think they saw $200 quoted on an $1800 reservation and put this down to exchange rates and went ahead? They obviously thought there was just going to be a very small difference.
They consulted their friend and their friend said any difference was just due to exchange rates. Do you really think they saw $200 quoted on an $1800 reservation and put this down to exchange rates and went ahead? They obviously thought there was just going to be a very small difference.
I think the OP makes it quite clear that all he saw was the disclaimer about not disputing the amount of the refund. He did not know the amount of the refund until he received $200.
This process has been backed up by other posters who have had the same experience.
May 22, 2017, 10:51 am
#148
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,455
I'm discussing the abysmal level of customer care. You want to deflect this to talk about this customer's responsibility. Two different things.
Let me ask this. How would your view of the OP's situation differ if the representative HAD added the simple caution that he'd be losing his booking and would need to buy a second ticket if he did what he just asked about doing?
Would you be any less dismissive? You could hardly be more.
May 22, 2017, 12:25 pm
#149
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Gold, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 709
While AA.com may be less clear during the booking process, it is IMO more transparent once the booking is confirmed. On AA I can get a nice e-Ticket with all the necessary information on it, whereas BA issues a document which, while aesthetically possibly more pleasing, features little information.
My latest BA e-ticket receipt indicates how much I paid in total but doesn't feature a break down between fare, carrier imposed fees and refundable fees and taxes.
A FF can very easily break down the total price, but I doubt that the average passenger can once the booked fare is sold out/gone.
My latest BA e-ticket receipt indicates how much I paid in total but doesn't feature a break down between fare, carrier imposed fees and refundable fees and taxes.
A FF can very easily break down the total price, but I doubt that the average passenger can once the booked fare is sold out/gone.
Below is whats shown for a WT flight to MCO..
Charges applied to your flight
There are certain taxes, fees and carrier charges that are applied to your booking by British Airways, airport operators, governments or other authorities. Here you will find a full breakdown and explanation of the taxes, fees and carrier charges applied to your booking.
Government, authority and airport charges Per adult
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP75.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP13.10
Customs User Fee - USA GBP4.20
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP13.90
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP13.90
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP3.10
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP5.40
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP4.30
Passenger Facility Charge GBP3.50
Total government, authority and airport charges* GBP136.40
More information
Government, authority and airport charges
Flight taxes, fees and charges
These are included in the price of your ticket and are levied by airport operators, governments, or other authorities.
Some airports may levy local taxes, fees or charges against passengers upon arrival or departure. These are not included in the price of your ticket and should be paid locally.
British Airways fees and carrier charges Per adult
Carrier imposed charge GBP203.00
Total British Airways fees and carrier charges GBP203.00
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges or fuel surcharge, where applicable, per person GBP339.40
*Government and/or airport taxes are refundable, however some countries will apply a Value Added Tax, Sales Tax or equivalent, which will only be refunded on fully flexible tickets.
A refund of the carrier imposed charge or fuel surcharge, where applicable, may be made on unused flights in your itinerary, if it is permitted by the fare rules and conditions applicable to your booking.
There are certain taxes, fees and carrier charges that are applied to your booking by British Airways, airport operators, governments or other authorities. Here you will find a full breakdown and explanation of the taxes, fees and carrier charges applied to your booking.
Government, authority and airport charges Per adult
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP75.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP13.10
Customs User Fee - USA GBP4.20
Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA GBP13.90
Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA GBP13.90
Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA GBP3.10
Immigration User Fee - USA GBP5.40
Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA GBP4.30
Passenger Facility Charge GBP3.50
Total government, authority and airport charges* GBP136.40
More information
Government, authority and airport charges
Flight taxes, fees and charges
These are included in the price of your ticket and are levied by airport operators, governments, or other authorities.
Some airports may levy local taxes, fees or charges against passengers upon arrival or departure. These are not included in the price of your ticket and should be paid locally.
British Airways fees and carrier charges Per adult
Carrier imposed charge GBP203.00
Total British Airways fees and carrier charges GBP203.00
Total taxes, fees, carrier imposed charges or fuel surcharge, where applicable, per person GBP339.40
*Government and/or airport taxes are refundable, however some countries will apply a Value Added Tax, Sales Tax or equivalent, which will only be refunded on fully flexible tickets.
A refund of the carrier imposed charge or fuel surcharge, where applicable, may be made on unused flights in your itinerary, if it is permitted by the fare rules and conditions applicable to your booking.
May 22, 2017, 1:56 pm
#150
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Traveling the World
Posts: 6,072
I am sorry for the OP and like others have stated question and question again. Hang up and call again three times before just cancelling a ticket. At least by just saying"Please keep the reservation as is" and hang up and call again at least you are getting more than one answer and it has a better chance of it being recorded. Now you may get different answers but you could always Google before cancelling a ticket.
Non-refundable means just that yes you can cancel that Hotwire Hotel but can it be refunded? No in most cases unless you have Travel Insurance and then that would not help in the OP's case.
Wow a $2,000 Economy Class Ticket to Europe(or is it Premium) is so expensive. I can fly to Europe for $1000 or even $900 from SFO on WOW Air.
I say live and learn and yes its an expensive mistake. I won't go bashing the OP because its a learning process and I am sure the OP is not the only one who made this expensive mistake.
Please keep us posted what happens
Non-refundable means just that yes you can cancel that Hotwire Hotel but can it be refunded? No in most cases unless you have Travel Insurance and then that would not help in the OP's case.
Wow a $2,000 Economy Class Ticket to Europe(or is it Premium) is so expensive. I can fly to Europe for $1000 or even $900 from SFO on WOW Air.
I say live and learn and yes its an expensive mistake. I won't go bashing the OP because its a learning process and I am sure the OP is not the only one who made this expensive mistake.
Please keep us posted what happens
Last edited by danielonn; May 22, 2017 at 2:23 pm