PeacefulWaters

Labyrinthitis? That's a new one on me and yes, very possible that it's the cause of the deafness!

Anyway, I'd better let the thread get back on topic.

fdem

Just from picking up on the,piece in the Times and not knowing the full facts, surely with the UA incident fresh in our minds, perhaps I detect an opportunity for financial compensation. Seems strange the people in question filmed the incident? I a,m hearing the gentleman in question on the UA flight is inline to receive a huge six figure payout (that he perhaps deserves)

T8191

I thought everyone had smartphones, and filmed everything all the time [when not texting or talking].

Prospero

A couple of recent posts have been removed from view so that we can keep the discussion vaguely on topic.

Prospero
Moderator: BA forum

The_Bouncer

PeacefulWaters, thank you for your candour. I felt I should respond, as it was I who used the term "sense of entitlement". I am impressed that you can see the logic behind such a feeling, without condoning or endorsing it.

I just read your linked post and despite everything, you seem to have retained a strong sense of humanity and objectivity. Being honest, I'm not sure I could do the same in your position.

Economy class is uncomfortable at the best of times - as I well know after the better part of a million butt-in-very-small-seat miles - and I can imagine it is more so with a painful medical condition. That however, as you rightly state, does not give a person the right to self-upgrade.

The only partially relevant situation I have experienced is boarding a flight (actually on BA) from SIN to LHR, after an old rugby injury to my leg flared up rather nastily.

Now, I am not seeking to compare this in any way with terminal or life-threatening cancer, but it did cause my leg to swell rather considerably and painfully after being seated (pre-booked and paid for aisle seat with my bad leg on the aisle side).

I simply had to get out of that seat just for a while, so I stood up and hobbled up and down the aisle for a couple of minutes, then went to stand at the back of the aircraft to get the circulation pumping again. Not once did it even cross my mind that I should just go and lie down in Club.

I must say, however, that the BA cabin crew were simply wonderful. One of the crew spotted me with my walking stick at the back of the plane, trying to exercise my swollen leg, and invited me to sit in an unoccupied jump-seat next to the rear exit for a short while.

After 15 minutes of sitting there and gently stretching the leg back and forth, the pain had subsided to a level where I was able to return to my own seat. The same flight attendant checked on me an hour later and said I was welcome to return to the jump-seat for short periods if I had any more problems. I took this up about 3 hours later for another 15 minutes or so.

Just before the descent, a crew member approached me and said to remain seated on landing and she would assist me in carrying my cabin bag and the package containing my father's ashes (which I was transporting to his native Ireland, after he passed away, coincidentally of metastatic carcinoma) off the aircraft.

My point is that the cabin crew were extremely helpful, accommodating and thoroughly gracious in, what was in my case, a very minor medical issue.

I find it extremely unlikely that any professional crew would take the decision to restrain this gentleman, or to remove him from the aircraft, unless he were presenting a danger to himself or others, or causing an extreme disruption, especially after the fury which greeted UA's forcible removal of a passenger, as well as AA's "Strollergate" debacle.

I empathise with anyone who has a serious and painful condition such as cancer, but I also feel that those in such a situation should not feel it absolves them of the responsibility to behave in a civilised and respectful manner, as PeacefulWaters seems so admirably to recognise.

PeacefulWaters, I thank you for your honest and open contribution and applaud your sense of objectivity. I wish you the very best for your upcoming travels and for the road ahead.

Kind Regards
Tim

PeacefulWaters

Pretty much where I am without full facts.

IAN-UK

..and pretty much where most of us were on UA's extraordinary action: professional crew and all that.

But truth is, empower individuals to restrain, give them equipment to do it, teach them to use the equipment, ready them to face unruly passengers, and you have seeds sown for over-reaction.

With a frail passenger trussed up in chair, defecating in situ (or so the reports go), at least one other passenger remonstrating at the brutality of his treatment, the pilot has little choice but to cut short the long-haul flight.

PeacefulWaters

Oddly, as the video of that incident was my first knowledge of the story, that wasn't my starting point.

albpenny

I told my (non-BA) pilot husband this story, and he can't understand why the pilots got involved (generally, given it was, as we understand, a self-upgrade). There must be more to it.

memesweeper

I have no insider knowledge nor was on the flight, but there seems to be many 'there's something wrong/ odd' here comments. Possible reason:

• pax self upgrades
• refuses to leave J
• much refusal of instructions to leave J
• carted back to Y and restrained
• .... at which point - or before - he complains if made to sit in Y he'll suffer / die from DVT or some other condition

under those circumstances the best for the PAX is immediate offload - given, and the best for the flight is restrain the PAX who refuses to follow crew instructions.

... and the lady offloaded? If she also didn't follow instructions then ce la vie.

the awkward pax may have been trying it on, or genuinely unexpectedly very ill -- but if for whatever reason if he's shouting that he'll die if left in a Y seat for another minute, then a perfectly rational response by the crew is land ASAP and offload. And would the local police arrest someone for complaining loudly that they are too sick to fly in Y mid flight? I doubt it. Doesn't require someone to endanger the flight to require an emergency landing.

the above is pure supposition but fits , roughly , the facts as reported....

Jagboi

Given that the story came from the DM, do we actually have any facts? Aside from the flight diverted, offloaded a passenger, and returned to LGW?

Cap'n Benj

Puts all our complaints about not having direct aisle access nad having to pay for a bag of crisps into a little perspective

Enjoy your trips!

saintby

Typing on behalf of my partner - who is cabin crew but not for BA - about this, i can assure you that use of physical restraints on board the aircraft would be an absolute last resort and not something that any crew member would ever want to partake in at any point during their career. The training the crew do in order to use the restraints is traumatic enough and the thought of having to do this on board would no doubt fill them with dread. Not going to speculate on the actions of the gentleman involved but the guidelines for the numerous airlines that my partner has worked for over the years basically all say that passengers will not be restrained unless being verbally and physically abusive to the crew or other passengers. And as has been mentioned above, the restraints will not be removed under any circumstances until the aircraft has landed.

WorldLux

That the flight to Jamaica is 14H long!?

BA must be circling 4 to 5 hours over the Atlantic to get that damn flight time up.

Wandered

I once helped with a restraint whilst travelling as a staff pax. The pax had already hit another pax and a crew member. As the police at the destination airport didn't charge the pax, following the logic shown in some posts on this thread, the restraint was surely then unjustified and the pax should have been allowed to run amok.
Thought not.
(BTW it was quite unpleasant)