speedbird001

I also agree with the Captain.

I remember several years ago I was on a LH short haul flight and a passenger who had a coach ticket sat himself in business class and refused to move.

The Captain stopped the plane and announced that the plane would not move until the passenger returned to coach.

It took about 5 seconds for him to comply.

HilFly

Off the aircraft!

moral_low_ground

it's not only children. 3 weeks ago a Saudi guy decided just as we were about to enter the runway to get up (he was in a bulkhead window (17A) I was in 18G) open the locker and try to find something from his bag. I told him (quite sternly) to sit down (3 times) which of course he ignored and he managed to sit down, with his back pack (not allowed in a bulkhead), just before we started our takeoff. Somewhat ammusingly he informed an immigration officer when we landed in Riyadh that I was a troublemaker (imagine that) and the official spent 5 minutes trying to find an excuse to keep me waiting (including taking pictures, finger prints etc). He then waited for me by the exit where you get your bags scanned to try and tell me the virtue of being a Saudi and that I was in his Country now etc etc. I won't repeat what I told him and just walked off.

Some people have no idea they are endangering the saftey of themselves and everyone around them. It's particularly bad in the ME but it's also not likely to change anytime soon

ttama

I have an autistic nephew and I imagine, if asked, a doctor might state that he's medically unfit to wear a seatbelt on a plane. But his parents wouldn't have asked in the first place. He'd probably be very unhappy (and also very unpredictable) on a plane full of strangers, being asked to obey unfamiliar rules.

He loves being in cars (especially red ones) and he'll wear a car seatbelt because it's within his comfort zone. And you can stop a car and get out if it things aren't going well.

The inability to fly, as a family, is very restrictive but, as stated before, nobody has a right to fly, especially if it causes danger to others.

Of course, we don't know the story behind this.

I've recently been given a doctor's letter allowing me to take extra cabin baggage on board (fragile medical equipment) but I haven't dared try it yet.

dylanks

I will say I empathize with the passenger... it can be really difficult to convince a 2 or 3 year old to wear a seat belt in CW or F, and the snuggest setting on the seatbelt in both cabins is such that our son could (and did at times) just slide right out of it. BA were extra helpful with this issue on our trip in F in December/January.

The one thing that is odd about the rules is that the separate seat and seatbelt is based on age rather than size. If the child can easily slide out of the seatbelt because they're extra small, it would probably be safer to use the extra seatbelt on a parent's lap for takeoff and landing.

UKtravelbear

No doctor I know would write a letter saying someone - of any age - should be exempt from wearing a seat belt on a plane because of the danger involved to the person themselves and to others.

It's possible, in limited circumstances, for a car though but the danger is more confined there.

Re your medical equipment that won't even be an issue as you'll be storing it in the over head or footwell not holding it in your hands!


And as a former GP practice manager we were always strict on writing various letters for people saying they need an upgrade or an extra leg room seat for medical reasons - 'ohh doctor my bad legs / back ...' was always popular yet required no other medical intervention to cure it!

When doctors sign spurious letters they put themselves at some risk and the vast majority are unwilling to take it.

NickP 1K

We went through this - with a clingy back then 2 year old - solution - WT/WTP seats instead of CW - little one had more of an issue on sitting by herself vs the actual belt. Once she grew out of it we were back to whatever we normally book

Often1

You miss the point. I referred to the use of the word "virtual".

The underlying reasoning stated by the doctor is irrelevant and it is beyond the competence of all concerned to evaluate or otherwise judge the wisdom of the doctor's assessment.

The simple fact is that a note signed by a doctor which reaches the medical conclusion that a passenger may not use a seat belt is definitionally a statement that the passenger is not fit to fly.

simons1

I didn't realise you were being hypothetical.

navylad

We obviously don't know the full circumstances here, however on the face of it, the doctor, if they were registered and practising in the UK is neither following the CAA rules nor the GMC's Duties Of A Doctor. That having been said, we don't know what the purpose of the note was for, it would be perfectly legal for a doctor to write a note to excuse an individual for wearing a seat belt in their car IAW the Road Traffic Act and the family to either nively or deliberately attempt to use it on a flight.

We simply don't have enough information to comment on whether the doctor was justified in the note.

In any case, having worked with a number of airlines to Aeromedically Evacuate patients back to the UK, they have really good teams that can work with individuals to help. Since Autism is mentioned above, and in the same way that we do for hospital appointments etc., the support and startergy really vary depending on the individual, but can include the likes of pre-flight airplane visits, cockpit visits, priority or late boarding (funny how not many request the later). BA could even arrange to meet the CC that would be looking after them on the flight.

The Autism Society proves a useful resource in such matters, here is their holiday planning advice.

eigenvector

I watched a couple struggle with their toddler to keep the seatbelt on prior to takeoff on a BA flight from Madrid to Heathrow. The kid kept insisting and the parents were unequivocal. If the seatbelt is not worn, we have to get off the plane and the trip to visit grandma is over.

Cabin crew did not need to be involved as the parents handled the situation properly themselves. ^

henkybaby

Just out of interest (and to avoid getting into BAEC/PR territory...), is there a circumstance where a passenger could be allowed not to wear a seatbelt? Or are there alternatives to seatbelts if a passenger is physically not able to use one?

I can imagine that if you have an autistic child (for example) and you have to go somewhere where flying is the only option, not having an alternative might pose very hard problems.

EDIT: I understand that there is a CARE system and that you can apply for an exemption to the FAA.

Here is a source about seatbelt rules.

FAA rules

NeilP

Was headed into LHR and a mum with 2 kids, say 4 and 6 showed no interest in making the kids wear belts, trying to ignore the stewardess and pleas the child.

Being in a grumpy mood, I turned round and pointed out that if we had a bumpy landing her child was likely to hit her face on the seat back and cause serious injury, so please do as you are asked.

henkybaby

C W

I don't think it's hypothetical at all.

If you cannot wear a seatbelt, you cannot fly.

Therefore if a doctor says you cannot wear a seatbelt, you cannot fly.

Why is irrelevant.

This makes a letter stating that somebody cannot wear a seatbelt a letter that means that they cannot fly.