First cabin 'closed off' to MAD but then hen party 'upgraded' into it on board
Apr 15, 2017, 1:59 pm
#136
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Apr 15, 2017, 2:00 pm
#137
Join Date: May 2013
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I flew LHR-MAD this morning on the 777 with my wife and 2 children. Had booked Club Europe and was told upon enquiry the gold line before the flight, at check in, at the lounge at at the gate that the F cabin was closed off without any passengers. The check in agent mentioned that they needed to keep it closed for 'trim purposes'. I am of course aware that on these flights, F will only be used to seat people if the loads demand it.
On board, the CW cabin was around 2/3 full. There was no one seated in the F cabin. There was a group of 5-6 ladies towards the rear of the CW cabin who were part of a hen party ( this was obvious as they were dressed as such and had arrows pointing at the 'bride' etc, who was wearing a full bridal dress). They weren't loud at all, just very conspicuous. I was seated in the front row 10, so overheard one of the ladies asking the crew before doors closed if the group could have a photo with the captain on the flight deck. This was granted and the group made their way back to the rear of the CW cabin.
About 5 minutes later, all 5-6 of them were invited to sit in the First cabin. I asked the CSM if we could move up too, but was flatly denied. I said that was unfair. The CSM gave a variety of reasons and became more vocally aggressive during our 2 minute conversation. These reasons ranged from:
"This is the only time they will ever get to sit up there, whereas I am sure you will have plenty of opportunities in the future". I'm not sure how she deduced this. OK, granted someone might have been terminally ill, but I doubt it.
"They've had a bit to drink and are up for a good time, so we thought we'd move them to keep the cabin quiet"
"The captain has asked for them to be seated there"
"I make the decisions regarding who sits where on the aircraft"
The gentleman across the aisle from me heard all of this.
I felt that the CSM became aggressive with me because she was spotted doing something not entirely correct and her way of dealing with my concern was to become authoritarian. She said she asked the captain and he had said only the hen party could be moved. She did apologise later in the flight, but by then the damage had unfortunately been done. I think this was a pretty unprofessional show from the CSM (happened to be Mixed Fleet) and if the captain was involved, then it was a pretty unprofessional performance from him too. BA customer service is investigating with the said individuals' line managers.
(ultimately I'm aware I did sit where I paid to sit, so I would suggest there is little point reminding me of that or the fact that the captain's decision on where to seat people is final)
Come on BA, this is a commercial aircraft, not a nightclub.
On board, the CW cabin was around 2/3 full. There was no one seated in the F cabin. There was a group of 5-6 ladies towards the rear of the CW cabin who were part of a hen party ( this was obvious as they were dressed as such and had arrows pointing at the 'bride' etc, who was wearing a full bridal dress). They weren't loud at all, just very conspicuous. I was seated in the front row 10, so overheard one of the ladies asking the crew before doors closed if the group could have a photo with the captain on the flight deck. This was granted and the group made their way back to the rear of the CW cabin.
About 5 minutes later, all 5-6 of them were invited to sit in the First cabin. I asked the CSM if we could move up too, but was flatly denied. I said that was unfair. The CSM gave a variety of reasons and became more vocally aggressive during our 2 minute conversation. These reasons ranged from:
"This is the only time they will ever get to sit up there, whereas I am sure you will have plenty of opportunities in the future". I'm not sure how she deduced this. OK, granted someone might have been terminally ill, but I doubt it.
"They've had a bit to drink and are up for a good time, so we thought we'd move them to keep the cabin quiet"
"The captain has asked for them to be seated there"
"I make the decisions regarding who sits where on the aircraft"
The gentleman across the aisle from me heard all of this.
I felt that the CSM became aggressive with me because she was spotted doing something not entirely correct and her way of dealing with my concern was to become authoritarian. She said she asked the captain and he had said only the hen party could be moved. She did apologise later in the flight, but by then the damage had unfortunately been done. I think this was a pretty unprofessional show from the CSM (happened to be Mixed Fleet) and if the captain was involved, then it was a pretty unprofessional performance from him too. BA customer service is investigating with the said individuals' line managers.
(ultimately I'm aware I did sit where I paid to sit, so I would suggest there is little point reminding me of that or the fact that the captain's decision on where to seat people is final)
Come on BA, this is a commercial aircraft, not a nightclub.
does everything that other people get, you must have yourself?
Apr 15, 2017, 2:04 pm
#138
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: ECH Gold
Posts: 150
Forget about it, it's a 2 hour flight. You were told "no" on several occasions but it seems you became obsessed in trying to obtain your goal. The CSM made a gesture to treat these ladies, probably giving the Club cabin a quieter ambience. Put in the same position , I wd probably feel a bit " so much for loyalty" but wd see the bigger picture and certainly wd not want my young son to be sat in the confines of the F cabin with a gaggle of over excited Hens !!
Apr 15, 2017, 2:12 pm
#139
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Apr 15, 2017, 2:18 pm
#140
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Firstly, many thanks OP for posting; it has certainly led to a lively discussion which made for an interesting read after a long day working in A&E.
I would also apologies that you feel hard-done by by the decision to move the hen-party to F; although thankfully you’ve said that wasn’t an issue. However, since you have included the fact that they were a hen party in your post, I would like to emphasise we have no reason to discount that the Captain made the decision and indeed, as you admit, you don’t know the circumstances of the hen party. Your own suggestion that one could be terminal ill, others suggestion that one could have a higher states than you or including a traveller with higher status than you, all of which are indeed possible
However, I’m sorry if you felt that the CSM was rude to you. It may of course, not been within the CSMs power to move you it the captain had already made the call to only allow the hen party into F for example. I am, however, glad, that the CSM managed to apologies to you later in the flight, the ability to recognise when an apology is required, particularly when one has been at fault in any way. It is admirable.
Had you been travelling for a special occasion, it might be worth discretely letting the CC know, they may or may not be in a position to make your event even more special. Indeed, if you are traveling for a special occasion, may I recommend letting your hotel know; I've certainly received unexpected gifts and upgrades when those I've been travelling with have let the hotel know of my special occasion.
I can empathise with asking again when you have seen F was opened up to someone else, but from experience may I recommend that you do this without expectation to receive the answer you are looking for to avoid disappointment and it would have been better to also do this discretely (by your own admission the discussion was witnessed by other passengers so I assuming this was not the case).
Out of pure curiosity, may I enquire whether you would have questioned the decision had the same number of pax not connected as a hen group had been moved into F but not you (this is purely for interest and totally hypothetical I appreciate).
I do hope that the hen party had a good time experiencing First and hope you managed to get an opportunity to congratulate the Bride.
The OP has not stated that he feels more entitled than others to be moved to the First cabin, but to those who feel that this should be the case, despite my own status, I fully appreciate the reasons may be of a commercial nature and whilst awarding loyal pax is important, so it attracting other pax.
I’m glad you have taken the criticism well, you probably have coped better than I would in your shoes.
I hope you and your family have great time in Madrid, and who knows, you may be lucky on your next flight, I’m sure you willl be at some point.
I would also apologies that you feel hard-done by by the decision to move the hen-party to F; although thankfully you’ve said that wasn’t an issue. However, since you have included the fact that they were a hen party in your post, I would like to emphasise we have no reason to discount that the Captain made the decision and indeed, as you admit, you don’t know the circumstances of the hen party. Your own suggestion that one could be terminal ill, others suggestion that one could have a higher states than you or including a traveller with higher status than you, all of which are indeed possible
However, I’m sorry if you felt that the CSM was rude to you. It may of course, not been within the CSMs power to move you it the captain had already made the call to only allow the hen party into F for example. I am, however, glad, that the CSM managed to apologies to you later in the flight, the ability to recognise when an apology is required, particularly when one has been at fault in any way. It is admirable.
Had you been travelling for a special occasion, it might be worth discretely letting the CC know, they may or may not be in a position to make your event even more special. Indeed, if you are traveling for a special occasion, may I recommend letting your hotel know; I've certainly received unexpected gifts and upgrades when those I've been travelling with have let the hotel know of my special occasion.
I can empathise with asking again when you have seen F was opened up to someone else, but from experience may I recommend that you do this without expectation to receive the answer you are looking for to avoid disappointment and it would have been better to also do this discretely (by your own admission the discussion was witnessed by other passengers so I assuming this was not the case).
Out of pure curiosity, may I enquire whether you would have questioned the decision had the same number of pax not connected as a hen group had been moved into F but not you (this is purely for interest and totally hypothetical I appreciate).
I do hope that the hen party had a good time experiencing First and hope you managed to get an opportunity to congratulate the Bride.
The OP has not stated that he feels more entitled than others to be moved to the First cabin, but to those who feel that this should be the case, despite my own status, I fully appreciate the reasons may be of a commercial nature and whilst awarding loyal pax is important, so it attracting other pax.
I’m glad you have taken the criticism well, you probably have coped better than I would in your shoes.
I hope you and your family have great time in Madrid, and who knows, you may be lucky on your next flight, I’m sure you willl be at some point.
Apr 15, 2017, 2:22 pm
#141
Original Poster
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In answer to Heathrow Tower, If the company rules permitted upgrading of friends and family, I would. If not within the rules, I wouldn't. I don't know BA's rules well enough but I didn't think CSMs or captains could upgrade friends and family? A friend's husband is a BA senior first officer and although we always cross check if he can by any chance fly us (for the novelty value, kids up to the flight deck after landing, meeting up at destination etc), we wouldn't expect an on board upgrade and in fact this ironically puts more pressure on us to book the highest avail cabin as I wouldn't want him to feel the need to do us any 'favours'
Apr 15, 2017, 2:27 pm
#142
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,144
well i am with jed on this one. When the captain asked the csm to move the hen party passengers into f, the csm should have refused and reminded him that:
"jed is on board captain and that will not do. You cannot move the hen party when jed and his wife and 2 children are in j.
"i hadn't realised that we had jedon board, i take it you mean the jed?"
"oh yes captain it is indeed the jed"
"thank you for saving me from myself. I almost made a career ending error by moving the superficially more deserving young people out to celebrate an approaching wedding, when jed was on board.
"that's ok captain, the last thing we want is for jed to complain to senor cruz because as you know old cruzy has no tolerance for upsetting his loyal customers and we would be selling the big issue for the rest of our lives outside hatton cross tube"
"jed is on board captain and that will not do. You cannot move the hen party when jed and his wife and 2 children are in j.
"i hadn't realised that we had jedon board, i take it you mean the jed?"
"oh yes captain it is indeed the jed"
"thank you for saving me from myself. I almost made a career ending error by moving the superficially more deserving young people out to celebrate an approaching wedding, when jed was on board.
"that's ok captain, the last thing we want is for jed to complain to senor cruz because as you know old cruzy has no tolerance for upsetting his loyal customers and we would be selling the big issue for the rest of our lives outside hatton cross tube"
Apr 15, 2017, 2:33 pm
#143
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 83
If the company rules permitted upgrading of friends and family, I would. If not within the rules, I wouldn't. I don't know BA's rules well enough but I didn't think CSMs or captains could upgrade friends and family? A friend's husband is a BA senior first officer and although we always cross check if he can by any chance fly us (for the novelty value, kids up to the flight deck after landing, meeting up at destination etc), we wouldn't expect an on board upgrade and in fact this ironically puts more pressure on us to book the highest avail cabin as I wouldn't want him to feel the need to do us any 'favours'
Just to check, has your friend's BA senior first officer husband indicated that it would adversely affect his ability to perform, his duties if he was fretting about you languishing in cattle?
I think it's noble of you to book yourself into the highest available cabin to spare his feelings; I hope all his other friends/acquaintances/neighbours/family members show the same selflessness.
Do you often find yourself on the same flight as him?
One final point, if you didn't think CSMs or captains could upgrade friends and family, why would you worry that a BA senior first officer would feel pressured into doing upgrade favours for his wife's/husband's friend?
Apr 15, 2017, 2:38 pm
#144
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
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Posts: 875
In answer to Heathrow Tower, If the company rules permitted upgrading of friends and family, I would. If not within the rules, I wouldn't. I don't know BA's rules well enough but I didn't think CSMs or captains could upgrade friends and family? A friend's husband is a BA senior first officer and although we always cross check if he can by any chance fly us (for the novelty value, kids up to the flight deck after landing, meeting up at destination etc), we wouldn't expect an on board upgrade and in fact this ironically puts more pressure on us to book the highest avail cabin as I wouldn't want him to feel the need to do us any 'favours'
Apr 15, 2017, 2:43 pm
#145
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,548
In answer to Heathrow Tower, If the company rules permitted upgrading of friends and family, I would. If not within the rules, I wouldn't. I don't know BA's rules well enough but I didn't think CSMs or captains could upgrade friends and family? A friend's husband is a BA senior first officer and although we always cross check if he can by any chance fly us (for the novelty value, kids up to the flight deck after landing, meeting up at destination etc), we wouldn't expect an on board upgrade and in fact this ironically puts more pressure on us to book the highest avail cabin as I wouldn't want him to feel the need to do us any 'favours'
Apr 15, 2017, 3:05 pm
#146
Join Date: Feb 2002
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The only real reason I can think of wanting to be moved to the same-mini cabin as a partying hen party would be to party with them, but the OP was with his wife and child... So OP: assuming your wish was granted, what exactly were you expecting once you put your wife and small child in a contained space with a hen party group about to hit the CW bar?
Old adage: be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Given you don't sound the most easy going guy (you asked four times about seating for a 2 hour flight), maybe the CSM was doing you a favour? I have visions of a counterfactual "BA allowed shocking display by hen party in quiet F cabin, in sight of my four year old" thread...
Old adage: be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Given you don't sound the most easy going guy (you asked four times about seating for a 2 hour flight), maybe the CSM was doing you a favour? I have visions of a counterfactual "BA allowed shocking display by hen party in quiet F cabin, in sight of my four year old" thread...
Apr 15, 2017, 3:08 pm
#147
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
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Posts: 570
Just took this flight a couple weeks ago in CW (F was also blocked). Saw the subject and thought wow that's very nice of BA, good on the bride to be. Clicked the link and thought I mis-clicked into the DYKWIA thread.
Wow.
Wow.
Apr 15, 2017, 3:26 pm
#148
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Come on Jed, come clean: this is a wind-up, right?
Come on Jed, come clean: you're having a laugh at our expense, right?
Wifey in hotel joining in your exasperation was a nice touch, but surely the give-away of a Henry Root spoof.
Wifey in hotel joining in your exasperation was a nice touch, but surely the give-away of a Henry Root spoof.
Apr 15, 2017, 3:32 pm
#149
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
If not a spoof then the situation is a real hoot. Nothing better than watching a fellow traveller getting steamed up about nothing.
Apr 15, 2017, 3:34 pm
#150
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In my eyes the only thing wrong with this upgrade story is OP's self-important reaction.
