Exit Row - exclusions

Old Apr 10, 17, 11:31 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I'm one of those who have had (several) goes at this at the Cabin Crew Training Centre at Cranebank, Heathrow. The doors weigh around 15 to 20 kgs but the weight isn't evenly distributed, so manipulating it isn't easy since gravity can pull it the wrong way. If you are able to handle a 20 kgs / 45 lbs sack of potatoes over your head you will be fine, but things like dodgy backs and lack of upper body strength would be unhelpful. It's more difficult than it looks.
When the brown adrenaline is flowing, the weight of the overwing hatch will not be a problem to most people. There is a video of the overwing hatch on a Nimrod being thrown clear of the end of a wing, frisbee style by a gentleman in his 50s somewhere on the web. He (and I have spoken to him) claimed that he did not even feel the weight of it just threw it as far as he could.

For all all that he was a fit ano able bodied man, and had no bad back or anything else to slow him down he was also a crewman on the aircraft.
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Old Apr 10, 17, 11:33 am
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Originally Posted by ILikePancakes View Post
That's rather interesting... If you effectively need to lift 20kg above your head, that's going to rule a hell of a lot of people out.
​​​​​​the shoulder muscles are puny, and quite a few folk may struggle to shoulder press 10kg, let alone 20!
You don't need to lift the door over your head though. The movement is ot take the door out and across your thighs (taking out the emergency exit row middle seat person whilst you are at it) then throwing the door clear of the exit. The difficulty is related to both weight and the awkward shape of the exit.



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Old Apr 10, 17, 11:38 am
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OMG i love the photos!

Ok, so this is something quite different. Technique here will make a huge difference to removing the door. Provided you keep a cool head on your shoulders, it should be fine provided you're able-bodied
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Old Apr 10, 17, 11:49 am
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Originally Posted by ILikePancakes View Post
OMG i love the photos!

Ok, so this is something quite different. Technique here will make a huge difference to removing the door. Provided you keep a cool head on your shoulders, it should be fine provided you're able-bodied
Yes, I think it is very much about knowing what you are doing, and doing it in a prompt fashion before everyone else makes it to the door. I seem to remember a photo of the engine fire in Manchester from the 80s where there is a door which was removed but was not ejected and was stuck in the exit, leading to obvious problems for those trying to use the exit.

On a broader point, BA used to offer flight safety courses open to everyone when the flight training centre was at Cranebank and you could practice removing the emergency exit door. Sadly I didn't get a chance to do a course at Cranebank.

I asked BA about the safety courses when I was there last October. All the cabin training equipment has been moved over from Cranebank now, but the thing they couldn't move was the 737 cabin in which they did all the simulations with smoke etc. Apparently they are looking to buy something similar for the new place but until they do they don't want to offer courses open to the public. They would hope to offer them once they get a replacement. For anyone who does travel a lot they are worth doing.
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Old Apr 10, 17, 2:31 pm
  #50  
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Originally Posted by ILikePancakes View Post
Technique here will make a huge difference to removing the door.
The number one lesson I learned from doing it at Cranebank: Keep your head well back as you open the hatch, otherwise you will risk a nasty bang to the skull.
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Old Apr 10, 17, 3:12 pm
  #51  
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Those emergency exit doors are quite awkward. Although in an emergency you're quite likely to find strength you didn't know you had, it's still rather bulky and awkward.

You'd also find that the normal doors (the ones that you use to board) takes a bit of a knack of open/close and find it a bit awkward if you haven't done it before.
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Old Apr 10, 17, 6:36 pm
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Indeed, in the pictorial method demonstrated upthread, you are handling a heavy, awkwardly shaped weight away from the body on a twisted angle without being able to twist your torso as it would then get in the way. This therefore mainly appears to rely upon your rotator cuff muscles, sorry muscle marys, the size of your biceps is not the limiting step here.

Wood-chopper exercises may help such as this (note she is using a weight that is considerable lighter and easier to handle than the object in question although admittedly they are exercising to fatigue the muscles not doing the motion once)


There remains a lot of debate about the role of adrenaline and more importantly noradrenaline for hysterical strength, in short we really shouldn't be relying upon it to get someone through a task they couldn't do previously (i.e. just because there is anecdotal evidence that one person managed to throw and exit door doesn't mean that all people will be equally effected in the same circumstances).

Indeed on average, people over estimate their abilities to react in an emergency.
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Old Apr 11, 17, 3:36 am
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Originally Posted by hfly View Post
He is disabled plain and simple and cannot be in such a seat. I would strongly suggest that you do not try and game it, as most likely if he makes it on the flight he will be moved, and quite likely to a terrible seat.
Indeed, I witnessed this a few weeks back on a flight. Gent inbound from Canada pre boarded A320 with a stick. He was in exit row. Cabin Crew insisted he moved. All got a bit stressful but he had to go. Of course the only seat left was Row Z middle seat. This then left the cabin crew to negotiate with several others to move so the guy could have an aisle seat. Plane went late inconveniencing 160 odd. As others have said - don't try and game it.
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Old Apr 11, 17, 3:49 am
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No "gaming" is being contemplated. I have put 10 of us in the exit rows and him in front of us. I was simply checking that I was doing the right thing. It seems I was.
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Old Apr 11, 17, 4:42 am
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Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
I have put 10 of us in the exit rows and him in front of us.
So your disabled friend gets to spend the entire flight on his own (and, probably, in a seat that doesn't recline) while the rest of you live it up in the exit rows? Isn't that going to leave him feeling more than a little excluded at the start of a holiday?
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Old Apr 11, 17, 4:51 am
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Originally Posted by floridastorm View Post
In my estimation, from traveling quite a bit both domestically and internationally, most people sitting in exit row seats are far from qualified to do what is necessary in the event of an emergency. If the selection was done realistically you would eliminate overweight people, people under 18 and over 55, and all women. You would also not allow any alcoholic drinks to be served to anyone in an exit row seat. In a real emergency you need people who are strong enough and alert enough to actually do what is necessary to make that row clear quickly and to assist passengers with exiting the plane. Unfortunately, airlines use these seats as a premium and give them away to people who have frequent flyer status and those who pay extra for the seat, with little to no oversight by the crew.

Wow.... I'm 55.... so I better make sure I don't end up in an exit row.... on tomorrows flight...heading to the National Championships of my sport....after which I'll find out if I made the Australian team for the Worlds in France later this year...

Thanks for pointing out how weak and frail I am! I hadn't noticed!

What an offensive and ridiculous thing to say.
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Old Apr 11, 17, 4:51 am
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Originally Posted by Misco60 View Post
So your disabled friend gets to spend the entire flight on his own (and, probably, in a seat that doesn't recline) while the rest of you live it up in the exit rows? Isn't that going to leave him feeling more than a little excluded at the start of a holiday?
No he'll be sat with his wife and a couple of others as there's only so much room in the exit rows. Good point about the lack of recline though. Will move them behind us.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 4:08 pm
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Originally Posted by trooper View Post
Wow.... I'm 55.... so I better make sure I don't end up in an exit row.... on tomorrows flight...heading to the National Championships of my sport....after which I'll find out if I made the Australian team for the Worlds in France later this year...

Thanks for pointing out how weak and frail I am! I hadn't noticed!

What an offensive and ridiculous thing to say.
Sarcasm aside, there are many people over 55 who are not as capable as people who are younger. Most 55 years old's do not have the strength, agility, and quickness of a 20 or 30 year old. That's just a fact of life. Yes, there are a few over 55 who are physically fit. But, most, even if physically fit do not have the same abilities of a younger person. That is the reason that woman should never be seated in exit rows. They just don't have the inherent strength to handle aircraft emergencies. The female flight attendants go through extensive and rigorous training and even they may have trouble with strength related emergencies. Of course, we are all brave and nonchalant until the plane goes down.
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Old Apr 15, 17, 4:19 pm
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Originally Posted by floridastorm View Post
Sarcasm aside, there are many people over 55 who are not as capable as people who are younger. Most 55 years old's do not have the strength, agility, and quickness of a 20 or 30 year old. That's just a fact of life. Yes, there are a few over 55 who are physically fit. But, most, even if physically fit do not have the same abilities of a younger person. That is the reason that woman should never be seated in exit rows. They just don't have the inherent strength to handle aircraft emergencies. The female flight attendants go through extensive and rigorous training and even they may have trouble with strength related emergencies. Of course, we are all brave and nonchalant until the plane goes down.
Ummm... But opening the exit is one thing, if you had to make a decision on whether to open it or not, and other issues to do with evacuation duties, beyond having the necessary strength (a relatively strong female can do fine even if they are pretty small, so can people over the age of 55) you might start looking at things a bit differently, e.g. less likelihood of panicking, female voice tends to travel quite well etc. Sheer strength is not necessarily what's needed here. If the airfame has been bent badly enough that the overwing exit is stuck, a sheer human strength might not allow it to be opened anyway, and likely there are gaps in the airframe, or other doors should be used.

Having handled multiple aircraft emergencies (although not involving the over wing exit) and having been in various other emergency situations, I'd much prefer someone level-headed and less likely to panic handling over wing exit or a door but is perfectly capable of handling it than someone with sheer strength.

Opening the over wing exit when it shouldn't be can have a dire consequence.

I'd prefer a female firefighter than a big guy who's never been in an emergency situation.

Last edited by LTN Phobia; Apr 15, 17 at 4:24 pm
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Old Apr 15, 17, 4:22 pm
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What plane is in pictures? 767? Haven't seen those seats in years. Doesn't look like you get extra leg room in the exit row.
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