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-   -   In (partial) defense of CW (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1833118-partial-defense-cw.html)

orbitmic Apr 1, 17 8:58 pm


Originally Posted by Ber2dca (Post 28116966)
And while there are some worse products than CW out there there's also a lot of better products out there. For CW to be an option for me, BA needs to be a good bit cheaper than a lot of the competition and that just isn't very common (at least in my scenarios)

Oh i completely agree, that there are a lot of better products (cw is now below the median for me). It's just that for me personally rear facing is not part of the issue so I was just curious about that bit.

orbitmic Apr 1, 17 9:00 pm


Originally Posted by smokie36 (Post 28116970)
Was around five years ago.

Even five years ago, for a long haul route, a cradle seat will have been an unfortunate (and highly unusual) substitution by a regional aircraft. You were terribly unlucky.

Nuster Apr 1, 17 11:44 pm

Not an expert but are the CX regionals not de-rated and incapable of HKG LHR? The CX product seems to me to be extremely consistent with the only difference being is there a F cabin or not. If I was looking at BA J I would always check what sears are available and not book if the good ones were gone where as with CX a window is nice but a middle is absolutely fine too.

orbitmic Apr 2, 17 1:46 am


Originally Posted by Nuster (Post 28117706)
Not an expert but are the CX regionals not de-rated and incapable of HKG LHR? The CX product seems to me to be extremely consistent with the only difference being is there a F cabin or not. If I was looking at BA J I would always check what sears are available and not book if the good ones were gone where as with CX a window is nice but a middle is absolutely fine too.

I am not sure about the derated, good question, but would also add that CX actually have more long haul frames than they need so often use them on regional routes rather than the other way round, so as I said, a cradle seat on HKG-LHR due to a substitution would be immensely rare and would require a particularly unusual and unpleasant alignment of all the wrong stars.

Ldnn1 Apr 2, 17 2:04 am


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 28117378)
Even five years ago, for a long haul route, a cradle seat will have been an unfortunate (and highly unusual) substitution by a regional aircraft. You were terribly unlucky.

Taking smokie36 at his word, I would venture to say that it hasn't happened at all on HKG-LHR in at least four years.

Dan72 Apr 2, 17 2:46 am


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 28116217)
I never understand those references by so many posters about QR crew being robotic/unable to think outside the box/less engaging etc. I'm sure people have felt that way since this keeps being repeated, but quite simply, it is entirely at odds with my own experience on QR.

Perhaps because they had different experiences from you? I too find QR crews tend towards the robotic. I recall a ridiculous exchange with one 'super-keen' crew member who insisted that the cheese didn't come with water biscuits... The matter wasn't resolved until I pointed out that the menu mentioned biscuits at which point he finally conceded they had run out. I'm sure 95% of BA crew would have handled the situation without creating further frustration. I sensed that they were uncomfortable of accepting any shortcomings of their employer.

Phil the Flyer Apr 2, 17 3:33 am


Originally Posted by orbitmic (Post 28116217)
I never understand those references by so many posters about QR crew being robotic/unable to think outside the box/less engaging etc. I'm sure people have felt that way since this keeps being repeated, but quite simply, it is entirely at odds with my own experience on QR.

I actually find that crew tend to show an excellent sense of initiative. Sure, there are service standards which are strictly adhered to (not least both 'in charge of the seat' crew and purser welcome and pre-landing goodbye, the regular offers of hot/cold towel at the start, then hot towel again at multiple points in the flight etc, which can give a sense of predictability, but there is plenty of initiative too. Since the start of 2017 alone, I have had QR crew who have offered to (and delivered) a shorter steak cooking time when I said I was tempted to take it but do like my steak rare, fixing ad hoc drinks, pro-actively offering to bring a extra blanket when they saw I was not quite covered by mine, and plenty more. I have had many an interesting discussion with crew members, including some fairly personal ones about their backgrounds, life in Doha, their future plans, etc, and find that the diversity in nationality comes with a great and inspiring diversity in styles and personalities.

the notion that QR staff are 'less free to express their personality' or 'less capable of thinking outside the box' is entirely at odds with my own experience over dozens and dozens of flights.

orbitmic - I couldn't agree more!! I have bolded one particular statement of yours - to me the key to avoiding a 'robotic' crew member is for you, the passenger, not to be a robot yourself. I have had some absolutely fantastic interaction with QR cabin crew, including lengthy conversations either at my seat, in the galley area or at the A380 bar, in the three-and-a-half years since QR became my airline of choice.

While there may be cultural issues at play here - many of QR's cabin crew are Asians who, particularly females, may initially be more reserved when it comes to interaction with 'western' male passengers - once any barriers have been overcome they are great to talk to. With Mrs PtF being a Filipina, and having spent a great deal of time in south and east Asia, I can vouch from extensive personal experience how 'unrobotic' people from that part of the world can be.

orbitmic Apr 2, 17 3:52 am


Originally Posted by Dan72 (Post 28118001)
Perhaps because they had different experiences from you?

Yes, that's exactly what I mention in the part of the post you quote ("I'm sure..."). An additional possibility is that each of us is culturally more intuitively compatible with some crew backgrounds than others? I always find it interesting that on the AF forum, some members (including non-French ones) describe AF crew as the very best that they have experienced and others describe them as horrible, and the same for LX, etc.


Originally Posted by Dan72 (Post 28118001)
I'm sure 95% of BA crew would have handled the situation without creating further frustration.

I'm sure that 95% of QR crew would have too to be honest, as would 95% of AF, LH, EK, CX, etc crew. It seems to me you were possibly just unlucky there.

Lefly Apr 2, 17 4:13 am

While I usually like CW crew and service (a bit less the food offering), the seat doesn't work for me as well as AA or QR ones.
So, if price is the same and I can choose, for long haul flights I prefer going with those partners. Indeed for the summer family trip, we choose AA over BA for both TATL flights.

It's just a matter of personal comfort :)

orbitmic Apr 2, 17 4:14 am


Originally Posted by Phil the Flyer (Post 28118085)
While there may be cultural issues at play here - many of QR's cabin crew are Asians who, particularly females, may initially be more reserved when it comes to interaction with 'western' male passengers - once any barriers have been overcome they are great to talk to. With Mrs PtF being a Filipina, and having spent a great deal of time in south and east Asia, I can vouch from extensive personal experience how 'unrobotic' people from that part of the world can be.

Very true! Another thing, perhaps overlooked at time, is that most Asian and Middle Eastern airlines have stronger hierarchical boundaries between senior/junior crew members than many European and North American ones. While hierarchy exists everywhere, I think it tends to be 'soft' in the latter cases whilst in the former, more junior crew members would be more careful not to step on the toes of pursers etc.

Jimmie76 Apr 2, 17 5:03 am


Originally Posted by Ber2dca (Post 28116966)
Well, I haven't tried the Q suite but I would avoid the rear-facing seats. It's for now an academic point for me as my travels take me westbound and not eastbound, so I'm not comparing CW with the ME3 or the Asian carriers but simply the European and North American competition.

And while there are some worse products than CW out there there's also a lot of better products out there. For CW to be an option for me, BA needs to be a good bit cheaper than a lot of the competition and that just isn't very common (at least in my scenarios)

Those airlines with foot coffins are trying to get more seats in length ways resulting in part of your personal space being under the seat in front. BA is trying to get more seats in width ways and none of your personal space is under the seat in front.Every North America and European carrier that I've found doing transatlantic crossings has seats that have foot coffins. From Air Canada to United, from Aer Lingus to Lufthansa they all have these and for me that's a big no no. The current CW seat isn't perfect and when direct aisle access for every seat appears (shortly) then it will have improved a lot.

You might be happy with your feet under the seat in front and that's fine but I prefer to pay not to have to do that. Probably reminds me of Economy too much. :D

Jimmie76 Apr 2, 17 5:27 am


Originally Posted by Lefly (Post 28118184)

It's just a matter of personal comfort :)

Exactly!

simons1 Apr 2, 17 6:28 am

Indeed it's all a matter of preference. The seats have to be fitted in somehow.

Its 2-4-2 on BA with no coffin, or 1-2-1 on airlines with a foot coffin and direct aisle access.

Each to their own.

Jimmie76 Apr 2, 17 6:44 am


Originally Posted by simons1 (Post 28118408)
Indeed it's all a matter of preference. The seats have to be fitted in somehow.

Its 2-4-2 on BA with no coffin, or 1-2-1 on airlines with a foot coffin and direct aisle access.

Each to their own.

The next version of the CW product will allegedly have direct aisle access and no foot coffin. Could be announced officially within days.

MikeBOS Apr 2, 17 6:52 am


Originally Posted by cbyrne92 (Post 28109778)
- The Club Kitchen is reliably stocked with 'proper' food items (Sandwiches, salads, etc.) in addition to the standard crisps, chocolate and fruit, this is great if you just fancy a light snack rather than a full blown hot meal.

I presume you have not flown CW in at least 6 months. The Club Kitchen has been eviscerated to the point where you get more choice with the free snacks on a LCC than options there. On my last flight the choices were chips/crisps (1 type), small bags of jelly beans, a small bag of cookies, and a few pieces of whole fruit. The sandwiches, ice cream, salads are long gone. I think the staff were embarrassed because they packed the whole thing away more than 2 hours before landing.


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