squawk

how sneaky!
Out of curiosity (and to avoid being stung - whether as above, or even just because one might unwittingly book a "bargain" only to find TPs/Avios don't credit or you're unable to upgrade etc.) - is there a way to distinguish such fares?

From the way it has been described above, simply checking the booking class doesn't seem to be sufficient? Or have I misunderstood this? Are there clues in the full fare code, or anywhere else one should look in order to avoid problems?

simonspear

TP's, Avios, upgradable.

What makes you believe they are?

Skatering

Had a last-minute business trip LHR-LAS/MCI-LHR which I booked last month and flew a few weeks later. Couldn't find sensibly priced J availability anywhere. PE was running at £1500+.

Was just about to give up and book an economy ticket on AA when I checked the OTAs, and found Expedia were selling VS PE for £800 on the DL codeshare. I jumped on it.

Turns out it was an AF plated ticket, on DL marketed flights, on VS metal. I have no idea why it was so cheap or why that ticketing arrangement was used, but I was happy.

I used to dismiss OTAs as more trouble than they're worth, but I'm starting to re-think them now.

danielbk

Depending on the agency and contracts, the term "consolidated fare" may be very broad.

Depending on the client and the situation, there are multiple fares an agency may have access to (or may not) that are designed for specific markets and many times would earn the same avios/TP's/upgradeability as the fare basis they are underlying.

Those fares usually carry the same rules as their underlying fare but distinguishable by additional marking after the fare basis. (eg IPAS60/LIB30)

Common fare contracts are fares that are only sellable as part of a package (along with a hotel booking), Net fares (similar to the one Raffles described sold by Amex), fares sold to specific market segments (entertainment industry, sports, production travel), corporate contracts and published fares.

No agency gets commission out of the UK (none, no matter how large), however they might get back end commission based on targets ("increase your BA sales by x pct, or achieve x pct growth, receive 2PCT retroactive") but will have some Net fares designed to allow them to mark-up the fare in order to make money.

It's different for large agencies based in the US where the largest still do have commissions.

With other airlines, many times net fare agreements are the same price as the published fare, but offer much more flexible conditions (EK is a good example).

P.S - We / an agent is obliged to advise a customer when a fare they are selling results in not being eligible to receive any benefit (avios / tp's for example in the case of BA).

Globaliser

"Might be", not "are", a form of consolidator fare.

I spent decades earning status (QF, latterly translatable into OW, on QF flights and then BA/QF combinations) and miles on consolidator fares, typically with BT in the fare box on the ticket. IIRC, these pre-dated the introduction of mileage upgrades on both airlines.

nbevan

Large UK agencies (like Trailfinders) have told me that their contract with BA means there is no booking fee if I purchase BA flights originating in UK (in contrast to BA flights originating outside UK for which there is a substantial fee). Having heard the same from several agencies, I assumed they must be getting a commission from BA for flights originating in UK?

ISTFlyer

Hi there,

I had just booked a ticket on crystaltravel which was $160 cheaper and offered Regular Economy with checked bags instead of Basic Economy that ba.com offered. Normally, I book my flights through ba.com. From Crystal, I had received the e-ticket number and reservation number, entered my Exec Club number and APIS details, selected my seats online and confirmed from the BA hotline that the agency had paid the tickets to BA. Checkmytrip also shows the flights as confirmed. Indeed, there are negative comments about crystaltravel that they usually cancel tickets and ask extra money to rebook to the same flights. Did any BA passenger experienced a cancellation or a re-booking to an airline in another alliance ( such as United, Delta ). Feedback is appreciated as I would send my ticket to a visa appointment as a necessary document and I feel to have the risk that my ticket to be cancelled at anytime that could lead to a deny for my visa.

Thanks again,

SQTraveller

I have never used this TA before, but usually the tickets I have bought through TAs are the most restrictive - hence why the price is so good. So I had to pay lots to change the timings - in one case I couldn't change the time without cancelling the ticket

frb98mf

I think it makes sense to post this story/request for advice on this thread rather than create a new one.

TL;DR - good OTA, bad BA Travel Trade, leading to me getting completely done over on a ticket change/canx, BA customer service on my side too. Net result is that I'm an unhappy customer, have wasted hours this week, and burned cash and Avios unnecessarily.

Long version:

On 17th May I booked a World Traveller Plus T-class return flight, TLV-LHR 16.40 BA164 07 Jun, JER-LGW 13.55 BA 2773 27 Sep, LHR-TLV 08.00 BA165 28 Sep, via an OTA (TravelUp.co.uk) for £505 – BA was quoting £585 for the same ticket. The OTA charges £75 to change or cancel the ticket - I took a view that even with one change, I was no worse off than booking direct with BA.com.

All airline tickets issued on the Israeli POS (IL POS) and originating from Israel are subject to a consumer protection law capping penalties for a refund at the lesser of 5% of the ticket or 100 ILS, if cancelled under 14 days from booking and over 7 working days from travel. I was within both until 29th May. Additionally, all BA T-class tickets originating in TLV, even if booked via another POS (ie GB), have a $50 change or $100 cancellation penalty.

On 26th May I asked the OTA about the option to either change to, or cancel and rebook to, BA164 on ideally 5th June, which showed availability of T4 according to KVS, and dummy bookings with the OTA and BA.com showed reasonable prices, not much more than my original booking. The OTA told me that BA Travel Trade (BATT) cannot change my ticket without huge penalties, or give any refund at all if I cancel my ticket, quoting me £375 to change the ticket. This appeared to reflect that BATT were looking at the wrong change/canx rules and were essentially repricing this as a brand new ticket minus duplicated taxes and fees, or something like that.

So over the next few days, I had several calls with BA to establish that one or both of these Israeli booking rules apply, and myriad emails and calls with the OTA to resolve this, whilst the actual fare started increasing in price. BA’s retail team checked and even added notes to my booking to reflect the above terms so the OTA and BATT could see that the ticket was indeed changeable or cancellable. The OTA thought it must been booked on the GB POS, though BA retail could see it had been priced in USD, implying maybe it was the IL POS.

As of 29th May, the OTA had T-class fares still for sale for £629 dep 5th June, BA.com was selling for £600 on 4th June, and for £752 on 5th June but with I-class outbound - all decent enough replacement options at short notice. BA confirmed to me yet again that the fare rules for my ticket allow a refund of everything except $100, so I went ahead and asked the OTA to cancel, with BA's assurance that they would help get back any missing amounts somehow. As fares were creeping up I decided to rebook using Avios for the return journey and some other frequent flier miles another carrier for the outbound, and cut my cash losses, knowing I could cancel this free within 24h if a solution was reached with BA.

The OTA then was told yet again by BATT the same wrong information, leading to a delay of another day before the ticket cancellation process could begin, by which time all the above fares had gone. Only after the OTA had formally started the cancellation, did BATT suddenly write back to the OTA to confirm that indeed, the ticket was in fact refundable, albeit minus $100 per sector rather than per ticket, but even so, they had admitted long after they should have, what I, the OTA, and BA's retail team had been telling them all along - by which time fares had leapt to double my original cost.

I went back to BA with this info and they advised after consulting with more senior supervisors that BATT do seem to have incorrectly advised the OTA on this from the outset, and had therefore incorrectly priced the options available. They asked my OTA call BATT to escalate this to a manager or supervisor. The objective was to work out exactly how the fare was booked and what the correct quote to change or cancel my ticket should have been on 27th May.

If it was on the IL POS as it appears to have been, I would have been better off to cancel for 100 ILS and rebook than change the ticket. I could then have rebooked at BA.com, where they were selling at one point an I-class out, T-class back ticket for £752, or at TravelUp.com, who were then selling T-class both ways for £634, both on that same 5th June evening flight. The total damage to me would have been £75 + 100 ILS + the fare difference from £505, ie roughly £220, or £340 with an upgrade. The cheapest the OTA quoted me based on their info was £355.80, with of course no upgrade.

If it was on the GB POS, I could have made the change for $50 plus fare difference. Given that as of 27th, both BA.com and the OTA were selling the same T-class ticket on that 5th June flight for £130 more than I paid, I doubt the fare difference can have been more than that. I would therefore have paid £75 + $50 + £130 = about £240.

Instead, if we go ahead with the cancellation, I will have lost £75 + $200 = £235 or so for the cancellation, so totalling not much different to what it should have cost to change or cancel and rebook had BATT advised the OTA correctly, and the ticket price is now well over £1000.

BATT told the OTA and BA retail that they would not look at any kind of historical repricing of the fare, to allow me to move to the 5th June flight at a reasonable price, and the 24h free canx on my award ticket passed. I am now down effectively 60,000 Avios (biz out and a circuitous route as there was nothing available on the direct flight, WT+ back, lost out earning on a rev ticket) - even at a miserly 1p each in value, that's £600 of Avios - and £250 in taxes/fees, plus £75 + $200 for the cancellation, total over £1000. Had BATT correctly priced the change/canx, I would have spent my original £505 plus £220-£240.

There is enough evidence to show that BATT misadvised the OTA from the beginning until it was too late, and both the OTA and the BA customer service people I spoke to are corroborating this.

I proposed a compromise to BA that BATT waive the cancellation fee as some recompense, and that BA ought to then make some kind of service recovery gesture for the enormous aggravation and hours of lost time caused - perhaps they could credit back the Avios I've spent.

I'd be interested to hear about similar experiences and how they were resolved, and would appreciate not getting "serves you right for using an OTA" type comments. I have to commend TravelUp for really going above and beyond in supporting me and badgering BATT on this until they finally admitted we were correct.

headforflights

It's always good to check ticket prices around You can save money

corporate-wage-slave

Judging from others' experiences, rather any personal insight, my own view is that however you look at it, OTA / consolidation bookings are right at the end of the food chain. The airlines don't greatly care for this business, it is just an inventory dump for them, corporates and frequent flyers normally steer well clear, OTAs generally don't put that much resources into customer care, even if they have in this example. So you can only really book OTA if you are 1001% sure that you won't make any changes. Trying to rely (effectively) on legislation and on T&Cs is all there for the patient consumer, but essentially I would only book these sorts of fares if you are going to stick to plan.

orbitmic

Completely agree with cws and I think another way of saying what he does is that your experience simply highlights why most of us stick to directly booking our plane tickets from airlines whenever possible, because ultimately, you can't have it both ways.

Yes, OTAs are sometimes cheaper and when the difference has been large, I have also used them, but where something goes wrong, you can't deal with BA (or other airlines direct) and quite frankly, even contacting the airline simply further confuses the matter and if anything, makes it less likely that the problem will be sorted at all. Of course, the alternative and normal way to proceed when you need to change things or when the airline does is that you deal with your OTA, and then you may experience an incompetent OTA, an incompetent travel trade service, or more likely people who don't really care on either side as they can blame each other if you are unhappy. It can feel really really frustrating, and I completely sympathise with you because it can also be really annoyingly expensive in the end.

Also worth noting that your point on the usual change fees of ex-TLV T fares is typically moot because precisely, some OTA can sell negotiated fares that may have completely different rules from public fares (e.g. I've had non-changeable I fares booked through OTAs for travel from countries from which all public I fares are changeable).

HMPS

Travel Agents also get X percent commissions and on top of that receive more incentives based on volume. They will pass it onto us, the frugal shopper !

corporate-wage-slave

In the good old days, yes, and that was how travel agencies flourished. These days not so much,though doubtless you will find some remnants out there. The commission element has moved on to items like insurance, car hire, airport transfers, hotels and other upselling opportunities. OTAs often do well out of that, but in some cases they squeeze a bit out via stealth charges (administration fees and the like).

frb98mf

Yes, might well normally be the case. Luckily not the case here, as corroborated by the OTA and BA customer services.

As the lesson here seems to be that if the absolute sum involved is not crazy, always book direct with BA, I wonder if anyone can give guidance on how to get BA to recreate some of the fare structures one sees with other vendors? For example I'm flying NTE-LHR-JFK-LHR, all on BA metal on a 125 ticket, but JFK-LHR is on an IB flight number. This priced up at about £600 via Expedia, but thousands via ba.com where of course it was all on BA flight numbers. If I'd have called and asked them to flip that last sector to an IB flight code, could they have done it and would it have reduced the price to anything comparable?