T8191

Pleased to hear your result, beetlebum, and well done for your [fully justified] persistence.

This thread will be a useful tutorial for anyone in a similar scenario in the future

mrow

This is indeed a great outcome. Frankly I think you are entirely owed a refund for the full amount and am glad you got it!

nufnuf77

As someone who knows and works enough about credit cards with that letter in your hand you are golden!
I would like to know whether this was a section 75 claim, but that seems unlikely, given BA are trading, and if it was S75 then I am sure your credit card company will recoup all costs from BA.

corporate-wage-slave

Though Section 75 is very often used where a company has ceased trading, it isn't solely for that. Indeed the credit card company is equally liable with the provider of goods or services, in cases where there has been misrepresentation or a breach of contract. Furthermore, strictly speaking there is no requirement to go to BA first either - the equal liability means the credit card company has full powers to decide the outcome on its own. That, of course, would be a very bad idea and presents other complications elsewhere so I would recommend people do what the OP has done. Since BA is still trading then I suspect legally BA will have to pay at least half this amount, and by contract probably all of it.

[There is a provision for BA to reverse a Section 75, this can take up to 105 days in all, but it may well be the credit card company won't entertain pinging the customer for this reverse].

Tobias-UK

The fact that BA is still trading is irrelevant for a S.75 claim. Proving the seat was inoperable doesn't entitle the passenger to a full refund of the entire roundtrip ticket. What BA offered the OP was derisory and wholly inadequate, even so there wasn't a total failure of consideration which would entitle the OP to a full refund.

Given the shoddy treatment he has received from BA, I hope this is the end of it as far as the OP is concerned. However, it appears BA has not had its say in the matter yet (as far as the credit card issuer is concerned) and so this might still be a live investigation.

EDIT: CWS beat me to it!

happytravelskh

bc i only fly upper class internationally using frequent flier miles, often obtained by buying them or credit card memberships, is offloading ok w/ a reward ticket if the seats don't work?
i don't get to travel a lot bc not a lot of time off work, so i've learned it's best to use upper class for the long haul (which for me is anything over 6 hrs) transoceanic flights. some nice person in reservations taught me the whole method of buying miles to go upper class via awards and so that's what i do. but i always worry about stuff like this since i'm traveling on awards... are they considered revenue generating tickets, where i have the same privileges?

corporate-wage-slave

The type of ticket on the day rarely makes much difference. I know of cases of people with broken seats offloading themselves at LHR and then the ground staff have rebooked them. I can't recall if it was revenue or redemption but I doubt it matters. If the seat was known to be defective before boarding it's unlikely that you would be allowed to sit in it anyway, unless the defect was not too significant (e.g. side light slider not moving).

LostAntipod

Well played beetlebum both in style and substance

HMPS

Yes, well done beetlebum.Persistence pays off. The 100 GBP was a ridiculous offer, a slap in the face.

I wonder if the aforementioned media article knows of what happened.

I have always maintained that I worked very hard for my money and if I pay what is asked for the goods / services, then I am owed that.

LondonCapeTownAnyday

If your card provider is Amex, beware! I raised a Section 75 against BA after they made a 1hr45min schedule change which meant the ticket became worthless to me but they refused to refund despite saying I was entitled to in the wording of the conditions of carriage when I bought the ticket. Amex sent me a letter with the initial credit and then another letter saying case decided in my favour but then went back on themselves a month later after BA submitted something to them which Amex said meant that they had to recharge me. I protested but after 3 calls didn't have the time to keep following up. What I learnt is section 75 against BA is harder than it seems

beetlebum

I am in no way confirming any further detail about my personal credit card or dispute method, but I have 4 questions:

1 - what is a 1h 45m schedule change?
2 - what were Amex's reasons?
3 - if time was not an issue, what choices did you have?
4 - was the complaint for a ba first seat?

Globaliser

If LondonCapeTownAnyday's experience shows the complete position, it's not likely that you'll have a special exemption merely because you were flying First!

KARFA

I assume 1 means the flight was booked and then at later stage the airline moved the flight to a different time 1hr 45 min different to the original one.

scubaccr

I don't think you are home and dry, I would certainly not spend that card refund just yet.

I don't really understand the need to charge back 100% rather than 50% of ticket price, since it was a return flight. Don't know whether that was
a)because no mechanism to charge back other than 100% with your bank
b)you were wanting to provoke a response + reaction from BA
c)you were "greedy" and in anycase can't change your mind later and increase the amount

Chargeback for a partially delivered service is not as straight forwards as for physical items, paid for but either never provided or faulty and returned

Payments for a service, rather than goods, which is what flights, hotel rooms are, is still delivered to some lesser extent than customer wishes even when not perfect so provider may argue/defend their position with your bank that fully amount not refundable.

The provider, in this case BA, then assigns/argues the value of what was provided satisfactory and partially. I am sure BA can easily and sucessfully argue 50% is not refundable as only one segment affected of outbound/inbound flight.

The real issue is apportioning a value to the problem half of the ticket. Even with a broken seat, the flight got you from A-B etc so had some value, even if you state you preferred not to fly and BA staff fooled you into using seat.

I can not see BA letting this slide, and expect BA to follow up. If you'd claimed only 50% refund maybe BA would have let slide, consequently I see BA chasing not just 50% attributable to good leg, but also a proportion of price paid for the seat broken leg.

LondonCapeTownAnyday

1. A 1hr45min schedule change is where I had booked to fly to Barcelona for a meeting and the schedule change meant that my very short trip no longer worked. Under BA's CoC it states I am due a refund if a time change is significant, I argued it was significant, BA argued it was not.

2. Amex's reasons were that BA had provided satisfactory evidence to support the charge (they merely sent in confirmation that I had booked the ticket, and if I was unhappy with the schedule change to contact them, which I had in the first place before escalating to Amex). Despite providing detailed evidence to Amex about why I was due a refund, Amex weren't able to budge it seemed after BA sent through their evidence.

3. I escalated my complaint to Amex executive relations (basically Amex's senior complaints team) who said they would get back to me within 8 weeks, I chased a couple of times, they never got back to me

4. No it wasn't for a BA First seat.

What I learnt is that Amex's process for Section 75 is as follows

1. Customer complains about a charge
2. Amex puts the charge on hold whilst they review the details of your claim
3. If Amex decide you have a valid complaint, charge gets credited in full
4. Letter gets sent to say Amex have decided in your favour
5. Retailer has 60 days to respond in which Amex will review their decision and may overturn their initial decision pending what the retailer comes back with

BA have a dedicated team to deal with these chargebacks and I would bet big money that a full refund in this case will be disputed by BA. The fact you booked to travel London to Australia and back and you did means that a full refund would definitely not be warranted. I am almost certain that once BA gets back to them, Amex (if they are your provider) will be re-charging you and telling you to take it up with BA, as they did me.

As an aside, I am very sympathetic to your case but I learnt the hard way that Section 75 and BA doesn't get very far. if the situation happened again to me, I would go the MCOL route if I had the time!