LTN Phobia

The dates I'm looking at for ATH are just under £500 each way for a return (=nearly £1,000 return). Before anyone asks, that's with a Saturday night stay. I wouldn't consider that too cheap.

P.S. I know I do have the option to fly A3 (and am a proper A3-flying A3 Gold...) but the fares are about the same as BA on those dates.

escape4

I have never flown AZ. A quick review of seatguru it looks like seat pitch in J is better than BA so my uninformed opinion is that AZ does not appear to be worse than BA. I have been affected by strikes at BA too, so while AZ might have more frequent strikes (I am not familiar) than BA, the argument is not "striking"

TK prices appear similar to BA or moderately more expensive. But with 2x2 config (no middle seat blocked) and far better seat pitch, I think the better product more than make up for it.

So we are down to BA vs LH. Both have awful seat pitch. Neither have in-seat power. Neither have in seat TV.

As for price, based on a quick unscientific sample:

FRA-LHR-FRA, week day flights without Saturday night stay: BA almost double LH (for both last minute purchases or advance purchase)
FRA-LHR-FRA, Saturday night stay: similar price BA vs LH

LHR-FRA-LHR, week day flights without Saturday night stay: BA more than double LH
LHR-FRA-LHR, Saturday night stay: LH moderately cheaper than BA particularly for last minute purchases

LIS-LHR/FRA-HEL-LHR/FRA-LIS: week day flights without Saturday night stay: BA quadruple price vs LH
LIS-LHR/FRA-HEL-LHR/FRA-LIS: Saturday night stay: BA more or less double vs LH

So perhaps LH is equally bad as BA, but if I save so much when I fly LH, then in my mind BA is indeed worse than LH. At least with LH I know I am getting a Y+ product (not J) and the price reflects that.

KARFA

How do you see AY as better? The A350 aside, I don't remember seeing power points on the majority of the A320/319 operated flights between HEL and LHR and I felt the seats were much less comfortable.

Andriyko

I am not sure what's the point of comparing Europe based airlines and their shorthaul premium cabins with airlines that operate in other parts of the world. This is how things have developed in Europe - an economy seat with the blocked middle seat and somewhat upgraded catering.

AlicorporateUK

Indeed, with some carriers (e.g. SK) charging premium fares (often ridiculously more expensive compared to BA) for non-premium products (no middle seat, mediocre food served in a carton board box etc.).

[AZ] More strikes, poor network nowadays (especially since MXP's dehubbing), better seat pitch, better food (but that's always down to personal taste), relatively young fleet (most 319/320/321, including the enhanced or 32S, recently refurbished) and cleaner planes generally speaking.

G

YClass

In its most basic form, I'd expect CE to be no less than 50% more than the equivalent flexibility ET non-HBO fair. Simply for the extra half seat. Then you add what I might typically spend BoB so around £10, and then (if I wasn't status pax) what I'd happily pay for for Fast Track, Premium Luggage, Priorty Boarding and Lounge. As proxy lets take what Easy charges and No1 Lounges. So thats around £10+£15+£40. So at a minimum I'd pay 50% more than the basic fare plus £65 and that excludes the intangible of Miles, TP and avoiding hoi poloi. As a status pax the cost moves down maybe £20 (due to benefits) but then is offset by greater demand for e.g. TP/miles. So lets say approximately 150% of base ET fare plus £60. Anything less is worthwhile, anything more is because you just want to do it or some other intangible reason. I'd say generally flights are around £150 to most Euro destinations so a "reasonable fare" for CE would be around £300+..... Maybe I've oversimplified it, but why should it be more?

escape4

Indeed I wrote that AY is "light years ahead" of BA rather than simply saying AY is better than BA, specifically because I can fly the A350 on that route which makes the comparaison a complete mismatch. Why would I fly BA if I can choose an AY flight with a lie flat seat on AY, more often than not for cheaper when there is no Saturday night stay?

escape4

I agree the comparison is less relevant outside Europe than inside Europe. But I did not intend to limit my comparison to any particular part of the world. If you want to limit it to Europe, then I still say nobody is worse than BA, mostly due to seat pitch.

KARFA

Ah ok. The A350 is a bit of an anomaly on that route though in the same way the BA 777 is an anomaly on the MAD route. It is a pleasant way to travel on that route if you need to leave LHR around 1030 or HEL around 0800, but at other times you are on the normal AY A320/A319 aircraft where I definitely don't think you could make the same claim. I don't think you could take the A350 as being indicative of the AY short haul product really.

lcyguy

OK so maybe LH don't serve champagne but their food is far better than the current CE offerings . This was dinner on FRA-IST this week . It's a 2hr 45min flight . Not sure where that would fit in BAs new meal bands. The beef salad starter and halibut main course were some of the nicest airline food I've had in a long time

ukgooner

That will be long - so the catering is very similar - a starter, a main course, cheese and pudding. Not all on the same tray either.

KARFA

Yes, something like LHR-HEL would be a very similar distance so something like this would be a BA comparison:

lcyguy

Frankly whether it is served together or not doesn't really matter to me. It did however traste far better and was of better quality than anything I've had on BA in a long time.Although I may been unlucky.

KARFA

Have you had once of the new BA long meals to compare? I don't doubt the LH meal tasted good, but i can confirm the BA one was very tasty.

hugolover

That looks very good KARFA and altogether very good value for 80 TPs. I see from the pic above Lufthansa are catering more protein, where the real cost lies. Halibut is not cheap in Germany.

I seem to remember AY offering some sort of tablet on their long SH flights.