Calum

Club world may be outdated but I personally haven't found the same level of privacy on QR/AA/IB. Now it's a different matter if you don't have a window (or middle seat for couples) but club has it's ups and downs.

psollitt

Would there not be a break point at which AA says enough is enough if we all choose AA over BA ? regarding the revenue share ?

dll

I personally find that for dayflights (eg westbound from LHR) I generally prefer AA, be it 777, 787 or 767. To LAX, where I am based, we currently have a 77W (777-300) (amazing J experience, same seat as CX). Other cities see a mix of other aircraft but they're all decent.

That said, if I'm not on the AA 77W, I quite like the overnight on Club World. Window seats are super private, I find the seat more plush and comfortable (not to mention long), and on the A380 if you get into 53A or 53K there isn't the need to step over someone. It's a better product option in my opinion. I also am a big fan of those massive A380 lavatories!

Being a big fan of AA I'm proud of the transformation they've made, and their crews generally try quite hard, though there are the few that try very hard to fail.

dnw

So true.. and that perception is still held by many. AA J? are you mad? is the usual response from colleagues / friends that travel to the US. Just try it I say.. each one that has has *never* looked back (4 and counting now) and some will even take a connection through DFW over a BA non stop now!

Sad but thats what happens when you stand still and take your position for granted.

orbitmic

More tragically, it is mostly a story of most airlines dramatically improving in the past 10 years and that is what is really worrying for BA.

You are absolutely right that 10 years ago, people would have alerted the nearest psychiatrist had you dared mention that AA J was better than Club World, but so would they have if you had similarly praised DL, UA, LX, even EK, let alone AF, IB, SN, or AZ. Now a very large number of us find all of the above to have a generally better product than CW.

I do agree with Calum that CW windows are very private, more so than the ones he compares CW too, but at that rate and using that definition, it is worth noting that BA J windows are also more private than BA F!!! And as it happens, few if any of us (certainly not me) would ever choose BA J over BA F.

J seats - and particularly windows, on AZ, IB, new AF, new KL, LX, QR, AA 763/772/773/789, DL, JL, CX, EY, etc are all private enough for me (as is BA F indeed! ), and superior to BA J in almost every other regard.

HIDDY

As I have previously said on this forum IB J is a better product to CW however that's not the main reason I prefer to fly IB over BA.
I suspect there might be people who fly airlines other than BA yet fail to tell us why. Most obvious one is maximising tier point earnings.

Cap'n Benj

I'm the same. BA everytime overnight, there seat just suits me better. The sleeper services and AAs ridiculous waking you up to get headphones policy adds a couple of extra points for BA

AA in the day though although once again having give your headphones in months before the flight ends is daft.

orbitmic

OT, but I've basically never been woken up by AA crew to pick up my headsets. I leave them in sight when I go to sleep and they just pick them up if I haven't woken up by then. I agree the 1 hour policy is annoying and the replacement earbuds for the last hour are poor.

sxc

The thing is that AA/BA don't only revenue share, they can coordinate pricing also. We also don't know if the revenue share is 50/50 - I doubt it is.

So it's probably not as simple as AA saying "We provide a better product and pull more of the customers therefore give us more $$". In fact, I would speculate there is already a formula based on the marketing carrier + the actual loads of each flight as to how they split the revenue. And this incentivises AA to provide a better product.

Blueboys999

Maybe not even that long ago.

Although I always felt it had more to do with snobbery that objective assessment, it was the accepted mantra on this board that BA was superior in all aspects to everybody else but particularly AA. It was far from uncommon to read posts like "I never done it before and know it will be rubbish but I'm on AA next week/month/year and dreading it". Although there was a large group of diehards, eventually most of those who actually tried AA (particularly the 77W) finally acknowledged that it's mostly a very good product and in many respects superior to what BA continues to offer.

As you rightly say, more about AA's continued improvement over BA's stagnation but the balance has certainly swung around.

orbitmic

There is nothing snobbish about preferring a fully flat bed to angled seats in J which is basically what the comparison primarily entailed for years!

Ultimately, 10 years ago, only a handful of airlines provided fully flat seats in J, then slowly this became the norm, and quickly, offering all aisle access with good privacy became the new black, and that is when BA was effectively left behind many competitors.

I still remember when Jet Airways introduced their own 1-2-1 seating. There really was an excitement factor then, and when TK leased their planes, people rushed to book them.

The other difference is that for years, 'southern countries' did not have very good or very reliable airlines. It wasn't just snubber either: Alitalia genuinely served the worst coffee in Europe!! How was that even possible? But for all their flaws many of those airlines soon tried to significantly improve their J product to balance out negative reputations. Flying J on IB, TK, and AZ simply is very pleasant, and the new AF too if you count France as 'Southern' apart from boosting hard products, all those airlines finally got the hint that 1) their countries have great culinary reputations that they should exploit, 2) reputations for disorganisation that they should fight. They all improved their catering significantly, some even remarkably, improved wine offerings (10 years ago, wine on AF J was really mediocre) and tremendously improved on time performance and connection quality.

Then even the Northern airlines (SK, AY, etc) once dubbed 'ikea business class' decided to pull their act together as has EI, and then the US airlines, which J was far too widely based on upgrades to deserve much investment, and BA finds itself overtaken symbolically in all geographical corners.

BABenchley

If anyone listened to the radio 4 today's programme there is a short interview with Willy, He even says "if the customers don't like it there'll go elsewhere"

He's dancing on the head of a pin.

Betteronacamel

I agree with Blueboys in the sense that even 5 years ago I would have suggested a trip to the doctor for anyone advocating AA on TATL (although I used them a fair bit on domestics - being BA Silver helps a lot).

We tried AA about 3 years ago (once they more or less guaranteed the new seats to JFK) and I'm afraid we haven't really looked back. I am OK with BA on the 747 UD overnight from the east coast where pre-flight dining and the arrivals lounge takes care of the catering, but our count to AA v BA during that time is about 15 to 2 in favour of AA.

BA's big advantage was that it had a common product across the fleet (767s excepted) so you always knew what you were going to get. AA has never let us down, but in the early days there was always a risk of pulling a plane that had not been updated. I do miss some of BA's older, wiser crews but I am sorry to say that there is virtually nothing else that I miss. Heck, we even moved our credit cards to AA.

I take the point that in F BA has the edge over AA, but as my last complimentary upgrade was in the 1990s I have given up hoping for that to happen anymore. We've burned a pile of Miles/Avios over the years to sit up front from time to time and never had a bad flight, but it isn't nearly as exciting as it used to be.

Have about 250,000 Avios left to burn so will look for an F redemption on BA in the summer, but thereafter that might be it. Our infrequent travels east are now with EK - did 4 legs on their A380s last month in J (at the same cost as BA's WTP for the same route) and was very impressed. Our corporate travel policy used to be 'BA at all costs' but not anymore, and until there is a clear cost advantage in favour of BA, it is currently more or less 'anything but BA'. Nearly the worst bit is that UA, which used to be total no-go, looks as though they are becoming a contender with Polaris. How scary is that?

Sad but true.

Lucanesque

No idea what dancing on the head of a pin means, but he makes a fair point doesn't he? That's really the essence of this particular thread.

Blueboys999

Indeed not and I don't disagree with any of the points you make although of course not everybody flies J!

However, there were large numbers who did not have your knowledge nor your experience who simply condemed the alternatives to BA out of hand and AA was usually the prime target.