Amex BA Premium Plus - new fee policy or a mistake???
#91
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London (LCY)
Programs: BA bronze, Hilton gold, Marriott gold, IHG plat, Meli gold, Radisson gold, Hyatt disc, AmexPlat
Posts: 977
#92
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,412
This is wrong. See the terms and conditions posted earlier in this thread. Plat and Cent cards reduced the fee to 0. Credit and other charge cards reduced the fee to 30. Only corporate cards did not reduce the then 120 fee. These terms and conditions have not been materially altered since then.
#93
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,459
The current terms and conditions apply to cards which were never eligible for the discount. Cards which were have different different terms and conditions, which continues the discount. If your card is eligible, you will also find reference to it on the back of the BA Amex statement.
#94
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,459
The benefit was not withdrawn and was not reinstated. It stopped for new applicants after a certain date (some time ago now) but continued for existing cardholders.
#95
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London (LCY)
Programs: BA bronze, Hilton gold, Marriott gold, IHG plat, Meli gold, Radisson gold, Hyatt disc, AmexPlat
Posts: 977
#97
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,412
It is wrong because the terms and conditions were never varied to to make only charge card holders and not credit card holders eligible for the discount.
The current terms and conditions apply to cards which were never eligible for the discount. Cards which were have different different terms and conditions, which continues the discount. If your card is eligible, you will also find reference to it on the back of the BA Amex statement.
The current terms and conditions apply to cards which were never eligible for the discount. Cards which were have different different terms and conditions, which continues the discount. If your card is eligible, you will also find reference to it on the back of the BA Amex statement.
#98
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,459
See the original terms and conditions: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/3301315-post9.html
#99
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,412
No, he replied to a Plat charge card holder, and explained correctly the situation for the Plat charge card only with no reference to credit cards or others. Then he wondered if the reduction had been re-introduced, not stating it as fact.
#100
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London (LCY)
Programs: BA bronze, Hilton gold, Marriott gold, IHG plat, Meli gold, Radisson gold, Hyatt disc, AmexPlat
Posts: 977
When the BA PP card was first introduced in 2001, the annual fee of 120 was waived for Platinum charge card holders (who were already paying 300 per annum). This fee waiver was withdrawn several years later (someone will tell me which year), but Amex continued to honour it for anyone who was already enjoying it.
Whatever I am saying about what Amex has recently done is still the subject of discussion.
#101
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Surrey, UK
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Amex Platinum
Posts: 89
Interestingly, an application form including the previously mentioned "grandfathered fees" still exists courtesy of a google search:
https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/m...sfinalukbs.pdf
https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/m...sfinalukbs.pdf
#102
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Theale, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 120
Background: Holder of BAPP + Plat Credit Card since 2004, so have always had the 30 fee, though I did have a Plat Charge Card for a year in 2011.
I called the BAPP customer services and the rep insisted the only reason I'd been getting the discount at all was because I'd formerly had a Plat Charge Card, despite my pointing out that I'd had the discount 7 years before ever having the Charge Card, and in any case, if had the Charge Card, I'd have been paying no fees at all, rather than the discounted to 30 fee. He was adamant that they had been told nothing about there ever being a benefit for Credit Card holders.
Matey boy said I could speak to his supervisor if I wanted, but would be told exactly the same thing - this was a communication that came down from Head Office (he used phrases like "from on high", "following orders", that kind of thing) and there was absolutely no way for them to offer a reduction, based on discretion etc. He did bang on about the reasoning for the change being:
* Treating Customers Fairly (I could have nailed him on that one but chose to let it slip so as to get to the point)
* So every customer was paying the same (that argument crumbled somewhat when he said that Plat & Centurion Charge cards don't pay the fee)
* It had been a project that identified people with expired cards who shouldn't be getting the benefit any more; an anonymous project manager "in upper management" had sent the details to them (I think he was riffing at this point)
So it looks like what's happened, to me at least, is that at some point they decided to stop the Credit Card being classed as a Companion Card - in the letter dated June 2016 which set out that the fees were rising to 195, it said:
"Please note that the standard membership fee only becomes payable if you no longer hold an applicable Companion Charge Card alongside your British AIrways Card, otherwise you can continue to pay a reduced fee of 30."
.... but nowhere in the letter or the attached brochure does it mention what constitutes an applicable Companion Card, be it Charge or Credit etc. They've probably fulfilled their obligations under the Credit Agreement by writing to inform that the membership fee was going up, but I think it's arguable they should be clearly telling me that another change means my fee will be higher, and should even explain what I can do about it (switch to BA Blue card, cancel outright etc).
I've emailed the VP of Partnerships & Brand at Amex to say that they need to be clearer about this - if it is a case of rescinding an offer that was only applicable to long-term, loyal customers, then it might be disappointing but understandable, however we need clarity that this is the case and not the confusion that is being perpetrated by the inaccurate letter and the call centre information.
If I don't get a response in a day or two, I'll follow up with a letter. That'll learn them.
I called the BAPP customer services and the rep insisted the only reason I'd been getting the discount at all was because I'd formerly had a Plat Charge Card, despite my pointing out that I'd had the discount 7 years before ever having the Charge Card, and in any case, if had the Charge Card, I'd have been paying no fees at all, rather than the discounted to 30 fee. He was adamant that they had been told nothing about there ever being a benefit for Credit Card holders.
Matey boy said I could speak to his supervisor if I wanted, but would be told exactly the same thing - this was a communication that came down from Head Office (he used phrases like "from on high", "following orders", that kind of thing) and there was absolutely no way for them to offer a reduction, based on discretion etc. He did bang on about the reasoning for the change being:
* Treating Customers Fairly (I could have nailed him on that one but chose to let it slip so as to get to the point)
* So every customer was paying the same (that argument crumbled somewhat when he said that Plat & Centurion Charge cards don't pay the fee)
* It had been a project that identified people with expired cards who shouldn't be getting the benefit any more; an anonymous project manager "in upper management" had sent the details to them (I think he was riffing at this point)
So it looks like what's happened, to me at least, is that at some point they decided to stop the Credit Card being classed as a Companion Card - in the letter dated June 2016 which set out that the fees were rising to 195, it said:
"Please note that the standard membership fee only becomes payable if you no longer hold an applicable Companion Charge Card alongside your British AIrways Card, otherwise you can continue to pay a reduced fee of 30."
.... but nowhere in the letter or the attached brochure does it mention what constitutes an applicable Companion Card, be it Charge or Credit etc. They've probably fulfilled their obligations under the Credit Agreement by writing to inform that the membership fee was going up, but I think it's arguable they should be clearly telling me that another change means my fee will be higher, and should even explain what I can do about it (switch to BA Blue card, cancel outright etc).
I've emailed the VP of Partnerships & Brand at Amex to say that they need to be clearer about this - if it is a case of rescinding an offer that was only applicable to long-term, loyal customers, then it might be disappointing but understandable, however we need clarity that this is the case and not the confusion that is being perpetrated by the inaccurate letter and the call centre information.
If I don't get a response in a day or two, I'll follow up with a letter. That'll learn them.
Last edited by ewand; Feb 15, 2017 at 7:05 am
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,642
So it looks like what's happened, to me at least, is that at some point they decided to stop the Credit Card being classed as a Companion Card - in the letter dated June 2016 which set out that the fees were rising to 195, it said:
"Please note that the standard membership fee only becomes payable if you no longer hold an applicable Companion Charge Card alongside your British AIrways Card, otherwise you can continue to pay a reduced fee of 30."
"Please note that the standard membership fee only becomes payable if you no longer hold an applicable Companion Charge Card alongside your British AIrways Card, otherwise you can continue to pay a reduced fee of 30."
I've had a BAPP since 2005. I got a Blue Card first to make sure that when I got the BAPP it would be on the 30 fee.
In 2011, I got a notice from Amex to change my T&Cs.
The then provision was:-
A fee of 30 per year will be payable by you, providing that the required companion card is maintained. If the required companion card is not maintained, a 150 fee will become payable in respect of the Premium Plus Card during the second and each subsequent 12 months.
A card membership annual fee of 150 is payable annually at the beginning of each membership year.
I am sure that there was discussion here in 2011 about this increase, and the fact that a companion credit card was no longer going to reduce the BAPP fee.
There was a further wrinkle at that time, which was that Amex intended to increase the fee halfway through a membership year, so that even though I had already paid 30 for the year, I would be made to pay the new fee in addition, pro-rata for the rest of that membership year. It took a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman to have that withdrawn, so that in the end the new fee was only paid from the beginning of the next membership year.
It sounds like many BAPP cardholders who similarly had Blue/Platinum Cashback credit cards were not moved onto the new term in 2011 and it's only happening now. I'd love to know why the distinction! And I wonder whether I might have a complaint under Treating Customers Fairly.
The position is more complex given that I eventually cancelled my Platinum credit card about six months ago because I was not using it and it was not giving me any fee reduction benefit. If I should have been getting a fee reduction until 2017, I wouldn't have cancelled it then.
#104
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Programs: BA
Posts: 36
BAPP since 2004 & Plat Credit Card holder paying the 30 fee.
Called today and was told that the letters have been acknowledged as 'ambiguous'; new letters have been produced and are being sent out which clarify & confirm the reduced fee has ended.
Called today and was told that the letters have been acknowledged as 'ambiguous'; new letters have been produced and are being sent out which clarify & confirm the reduced fee has ended.
#105
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,642
I have dug out some discussion in 2011 of the letters which were then sent changing the T&Cs (of selected cardholders, it seems) to remove the fee reduction for holding certain other Amex cards. I found it in two separate threads:-
From http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...er-thread.html:-
From http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...t-sign-up.html:-
Are there any other Platinum credit card holders reading this thread who were moved off the 30 fee onto the 150 fee back in 2011?
From http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...er-thread.html:-
From http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...t-sign-up.html:-
- 3 posts starting here
- 10 posts starting here
- 1 post here
- 8 posts starting here
- 2 posts starting here
Are there any other Platinum credit card holders reading this thread who were moved off the 30 fee onto the 150 fee back in 2011?