corporate-wage-slave

OK, let's go back on topic.

I've done some investigation on this, and in simple terms Avios/2-4-1 are not necessarily prioritised for downgrades, in some cases - usually with an "on carriage" booking (connecting flight) they may well be protected against downgrades and rebooking. Downgrades are broadly done on the basis of the last person to check in, avoiding those who paid for seat selection (not necessarily those with seat selection via status), avoiding people with connections, avoiding special meals. If you are late to check in, and/or don't hold a seat allocation (which typically happens on very last minute bookings), and/or on a point to point trip, then you are at risk of a downgrade, not the 2-4-1 per se. Status will slightly help, it's very unusual for Gold Cardholders to be downgraded from their original service, unless there is a really significant incident, but it does happen sometimes.

First point: it's rare, it doesn't happen that often, some days T5 downgrades no-one from First at all. The far bigger risk is being involuntarily upgraded. First is overbooked by 1 from a distance, and that "plus one" gets decayed out of the selling inventory over time. The only problem is that there are still some sales channels that BA don't have full visibility on, and in some markets (Hong Kong, Caribbean) it can lead to some awkward issues at the last moment. Allowing overbooking is essential if fares are to be competitive.

Secondly when a downgrade is required, some thought is given to where it is going to land. If it's a BAEC member, they may well get a telephone call a few days beforehand inviting the passenger to go on another service instead, and you can negotiate aspects around that. I've only had that twice in the last 3 or 4 years, one a shorthaul, the other a SIN. But yes, if you are on a relatively inexpensive ticket - relative to everyone else - and you don't have status, then you are potentially in the cross-hairs.

Thirdly, if downgraded, there is no opt out on paying reimbursement. It may be lower on a 2-4-1 than a cash fare, but it is still there. Judging from the some PM based cases that I've been involved with, you can negotiate for the 2-4-1 to be compensated with a space-available upgrade on another flight. Now BA don't make it easy, unfortunately, but it's perfectly do-able with a modicum of assertion.

AJLondon

I recall some threads about issues at outstations (e.g., ex-KUL on the 789 in F in particular comes to mind.) Maybe it may be a bigger issue in some outstations than say LHR...

FlyingGirl79

Thanks, that's useful to hear. So if it happened to me, or like some of the previous examples where £200 only was given on a downgrade on a LH from CW to WTP, do you advise that I should just stand firm and refuse to accept the £200? Would BA book me and my companion on an alternative flight or would I be expected to lump it and then try and beg what I can get from BA after the event?

corporate-wage-slave

Certainly ask to be rebooked on an alternative service. This should have been checked by the ground staff before approaching you, I've certainly seen some reports where they are reluctant to do this, but in reality there is no blocker there, any JBA service will do, and it's not even a lot of work either. The two circumstances were this may be different would be if there are dozens of passengers to be dealt with and there is an element of swift solution finding. The other is that occasionally JFK (and perhaps a few other locations) finds oversales across the board, and there is no realistic solution other than to make people go on another flight. They should also offer hotel accommodation automatically, but I wouldn't worry about that, you can claim afterwards.

I personally wouldn't renounce the £200, bird in the hand and all that, but if you get rebooked at your behest I can see the point of withdrawing that offer.

Again it doesn't happen that often. LGW First services from the out station are a bit at risk due to the very restricted fleet of First aircraft available there, and local sales only becoming apparent at the last moment - plus of course the usual seat not working issue.

Flexible preferences

Thanks for the greater clarity on this.

JAXBA

May I ask what this bit means? RevMan don't quite know how many seats are sold on some flights?

corporate-wage-slave

My understanding (which I got from the horse's mouth) is that the travel agency business in HK and related areas is such that the usual no-show percentage that would apply to (e.g.) LHR-BKK simply doesn't work for HKG-LHR. They can achieve Statistical Significance on almost all routes, but there are some where it fails the usual tests, due to the sales channels concerned. Everyone turns up one day, no-one turns up the next.

SaraJH

I know that most people on here are sick of me saying it but I have been the unfortunate victim of this, luckily only from F to J, and my lovely chivalrous (sensible....) husband took the CW seat on my behalf

It was a return from the Caribbean (St. Lucia) and thanks to CWS I now realise how this happened and why it's a risk on this route.

Personally I very much believe that we were targeted as we are Tesco tarts on a 241 and I was downgraded as I was the companion.

As with all anecdotal evidence YMMV.

JAXBA

Gotcha - so the nosho factor is highly variable, probably a factor of the fares in that market which may allow a fee and rebooking.

Pax on fares originating in India used to love to nosho again and again and again. They got very surprised when they got told they either now owed 10x change/nosho fees and/or that the tkt had no further value (depending on the version of the fare rules).

IAMORGAN

I agree. It'll be a commercial decision ultimately I'm sure.

stewaran

As they are supposed to ask for volunteers before making a downgrade.

Would this mean that if they were to downgrade my companion on a 241, that i could volunteer to be downgraded. Thus meaning that the person with a "paid ticket" (even if only avios) was downgraded?

PUCCI GALORE

Ok - my take. I was travelling MAD - LHR in CE last year on an Avios ticket. The 767 landed and at the due time we all went to the gate. At the moment of boarding, the aircraft went tech. There was a cracked window they told us. The following and last flight of the night was a A320. Two into one in that instance could not go.

I called the Gold Line and sorted myself out for flying the next day - there are worse places to be stranded than Madrid! I went to desk to find out if they were organising hotels. As I got to the desk and explained the Iberia agent took my BP, clicked and clocked around on the keyboard - et voila - there was me organised in Club on the following flight. I have nothing but praise for the customer service response. So although I was on Avios I was not downgraded or offloaded although I was (and am) Gold so I am sure that this what swung it.

Had I gone and organised hotel accommodation without going to the desk, would BA have refunded me (assuming that it was under €200) ?

Swanhunter - Tesco Tourism made my day and said everything I feel about that particular emporium. I occasionally use the one near Gatwick - or should I say Crawley International Airport. Unhelpful, Uninterested, staff who have off-handedness hones to a fine art. All no doubt dreaming of finding employment in the No I Lounge at the Hub no one wanted.

corporate-wage-slave

Yes, except the quibble limit is £200 (not quite the same amount, yet). Just send them the bill afterwards, if you call they will pay up within a few days, by webform it takes a couple of weeks.

PUCCI GALORE

Thanks CWS - to whom and at which address should this be sent.

corporate-wage-slave

If you are Gold, just ring Customer Relations ("travel already completed" option) during UK office hours, it's probably the easiest and quickest. Otherwise send in the usual webform in the Contacts section of BAEC, add in a breakdown of expenditure (e.g. taxi 14.10€, room only Hilton Barajas 138.25€ etc). If they want the paperwork they will then send send an email address for attachments. There is a fax number in the Contacts section but I don't think one needs to start there.