The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
#1381
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: Brighton. UK
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#1382
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold. GGL/CCR.
Posts: 13,248
Strikes as usually considered to be extraordinary circumstances so no EU261 compensation.
I believe the airline will still have a duty of care obligation.
I believe the airline will still have a duty of care obligation.
#1383
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Location: Denmark
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Posts: 11,819
EU Reg. 261/04 will apply, but no compensation as this is a text book example of delay caused by "extraordinary circumstances" which exempt the airline from paying compensation. The duty of care (hotel, meal voucher) still applies though.
#1384
There was a recent judgement from the CJEU on a EU261 implying connection. I put a link in the thread for documentation purpose, this might be useful information for future similar cases:
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp170092en.pdf
Emphasis by the CJEU
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp170092en.pdf
The compensation payable to passengers in the event of cancellation or long delay of a connecting flight must be calculated according to the radial distance between the departure and arrival airports The fact that the distance actually covered by such a flight is, as a result of the connection, greater than the distance between the departure and arrival airports has no impact on the calculation of compensation
[snip]
In that regard, the Court considers that the nature of the flight (direct flight or connecting flight) has no impact on the extent of the inconvenience suffered by the passengers. Consequently, when determining the amount of compensation in the case of a connecting flight, only the radial distance (‘great circle’ distance) that a direct flight would cover between the departure airport and the arrival airport should be taken into consideration.
[snip]
In that regard, the Court considers that the nature of the flight (direct flight or connecting flight) has no impact on the extent of the inconvenience suffered by the passengers. Consequently, when determining the amount of compensation in the case of a connecting flight, only the radial distance (‘great circle’ distance) that a direct flight would cover between the departure airport and the arrival airport should be taken into consideration.
Last edited by fransknorge; Sep 13, 2017 at 8:37 am Reason: Clarification added
#1386
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA GGL. HH Diamond. CC, SPG, MR Gold.
Posts: 59
Further to my previous posts, I'm just coming back with an update. To summarise my interactions with BA so far (on my partners behalf):
-Delay on BA2717 AGP-LGW 13th July, >3hrs.
-Pilot apologises for delay and states technical fault at previous destination.
-EC261 Claim Submitted on return.
-Denied claiming airspace restrictions.
-ATC delay disputed, supplied timings of previous flights supporting delay at previous destination.
-Denied stating that the delay occurred because of "aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us, there was a power supply fault which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled"
Since my last post, I have contacted BA and asked for a final decision letter, the reason for the delay to the aircraft and the reason that BA felt it wasn't eligible for compensation.
BA responded saying:
I responded to BA pointing out that I hadn't asked them to change their decision on this occasion, I had asked for a final decision letter, the reason for the delay and why it wasn't eligible. I once again asked for that.
BA have today responded:
I thought it polite to sum up the contact I had with BA and provide the outcome, and to thank those that provided information to assist me in my contact with BA.
-Delay on BA2717 AGP-LGW 13th July, >3hrs.
-Pilot apologises for delay and states technical fault at previous destination.
-EC261 Claim Submitted on return.
-Denied claiming airspace restrictions.
-ATC delay disputed, supplied timings of previous flights supporting delay at previous destination.
-Denied stating that the delay occurred because of "aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us, there was a power supply fault which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled"
Since my last post, I have contacted BA and asked for a final decision letter, the reason for the delay to the aircraft and the reason that BA felt it wasn't eligible for compensation.
BA responded saying:
Originally Posted by BACR
I've discussed your complaint with my manager, and I'm afraid our decision isn't going to change, and we're unable to offer you any form of compensation.
BA have today responded:
Originally Posted by BACR
I've discussed your request with my manager. After receiving further information from our Flight Investigation Team I'm pleased to inform you, you're entitled to EU compensation for the delay BA2717 Malaga to London Gatwick on 13 July.
#1387
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Further to my previous posts, I'm just coming back with an update. To summarise my interactions with BA so far (on my partners behalf):
-Delay on BA2717 AGP-LGW 13th July, >3hrs.
-Pilot apologises for delay and states technical fault at previous destination.
-EC261 Claim Submitted on return.
-Denied claiming airspace restrictions.
-ATC delay disputed, supplied timings of previous flights supporting delay at previous destination.
-Denied stating that the delay occurred because of "aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us, there was a power supply fault which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled"
Since my last post, I have contacted BA and asked for a final decision letter, the reason for the delay to the aircraft and the reason that BA felt it wasn't eligible for compensation.
BA responded saying:
I responded to BA pointing out that I hadn't asked them to change their decision on this occasion, I had asked for a final decision letter, the reason for the delay and why it wasn't eligible. I once again asked for that.
BA have today responded:
I thought it polite to sum up the contact I had with BA and provide the outcome, and to thank those that provided information to assist me in my contact with BA.
-Delay on BA2717 AGP-LGW 13th July, >3hrs.
-Pilot apologises for delay and states technical fault at previous destination.
-EC261 Claim Submitted on return.
-Denied claiming airspace restrictions.
-ATC delay disputed, supplied timings of previous flights supporting delay at previous destination.
-Denied stating that the delay occurred because of "aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us, there was a power supply fault which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled"
Since my last post, I have contacted BA and asked for a final decision letter, the reason for the delay to the aircraft and the reason that BA felt it wasn't eligible for compensation.
BA responded saying:
I responded to BA pointing out that I hadn't asked them to change their decision on this occasion, I had asked for a final decision letter, the reason for the delay and why it wasn't eligible. I once again asked for that.
BA have today responded:
I thought it polite to sum up the contact I had with BA and provide the outcome, and to thank those that provided information to assist me in my contact with BA.
Although perish the thought that BA were being deliberately dishonest.
#1388
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
As I predicted earlier BA capsized once the prospect of MCOL materialised and the inconsistencies in their argument were exposed.
#1389
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Hello All - I made a claim a few weeks ago for BA flights to Freetown in Nov 2012. I received a reply within 2 weeks stating I am entitled to full compensation and requesting my bank details to proceed with payment. I was dubious about a hacker at first and reluctant to click the link to reply. I had a computer technician check out the link (which strangely ended in .ba) and he confirmed it was ok. Thanks from me and my fellow passenger to this thread for giving us the resolve to apply directly to BA rather than using agencies which charge very high fees and (some at least) are not transparent with their clients. I will let you know what happens next.
#1390
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 14
Hello everybody!
I have a query about whether you guys think I would be entitled to compensation. The circumstances are these:
I was booked on flight BA0193 LHR to DFW on the 15th August. BA emailed me on the 11th August to say the flight had been cancelled and I was now booked on a flight the following day.
My reading of this was that I qualified for 600 Euro as I wasn't given sufficient notice, I arrived in the US 24 hours later than booked, and the flight is 7,000km. So I immediately applied.
I just got a response from BA saying "BA0193 on 15 August was cancelled because of operational circumstances outside of our control, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation."
But that's all the information I have - no other explanation for the cancellation has been given. I've asked for more details, but what reason for this cancellation is likely to back up their position, or negate it? Any ideas?
I have a query about whether you guys think I would be entitled to compensation. The circumstances are these:
I was booked on flight BA0193 LHR to DFW on the 15th August. BA emailed me on the 11th August to say the flight had been cancelled and I was now booked on a flight the following day.
My reading of this was that I qualified for 600 Euro as I wasn't given sufficient notice, I arrived in the US 24 hours later than booked, and the flight is 7,000km. So I immediately applied.
I just got a response from BA saying "BA0193 on 15 August was cancelled because of operational circumstances outside of our control, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation."
But that's all the information I have - no other explanation for the cancellation has been given. I've asked for more details, but what reason for this cancellation is likely to back up their position, or negate it? Any ideas?
"I’ve reviewed your claim and as per our records your flight BA0193 was cancelled due Industrial Action being in place which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
On the day you were due to travel, industrial action was carried out by British Airways cabin crew. Strikes are an extraordinary circumstance and are outside of our control. I’m afraid this meant we had no option but to delay your flight.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
I realise this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will help you to understand our decision."
As expected, they are claiming that the industrial action was an "extraordinary circumstance". However, the CAA's page on this says that extraordinary circumstances would include "Strikes (unrelated to the airline such as, airport staff, ground handlers, or air traffic control)". However, this strike was very definitely related to the airline so it seems to me (and I believe others here) that this would NOT be considered extraordinary.
The only question remaining is, has anyone actually succeeded in claiming compensation because of a cancellation caused by the cabin crew? Or will I be the first?
#1391
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
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Posts: 15,922
I finally got a response from BA addressing my query as to the explanation for the cancellation and refusal of compensation. It reads:
"I’ve reviewed your claim and as per our records your flight BA0193 was cancelled due Industrial Action being in place which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
On the day you were due to travel, industrial action was carried out by British Airways cabin crew. Strikes are an extraordinary circumstance and are outside of our control. I’m afraid this meant we had no option but to delay your flight.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
I realise this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will help you to understand our decision."
As expected, they are claiming that the industrial action was an "extraordinary circumstance". However, the CAA's page on this says that extraordinary circumstances would include "Strikes (unrelated to the airline such as, airport staff, ground handlers, or air traffic control)". However, this strike was very definitely related to the airline so it seems to me (and I believe others here) that this would NOT be considered extraordinary.
The only question remaining is, has anyone actually succeeded in claiming compensation because of a cancellation caused by the cabin crew? Or will I be the first?
"I’ve reviewed your claim and as per our records your flight BA0193 was cancelled due Industrial Action being in place which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
On the day you were due to travel, industrial action was carried out by British Airways cabin crew. Strikes are an extraordinary circumstance and are outside of our control. I’m afraid this meant we had no option but to delay your flight.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
I realise this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will help you to understand our decision."
As expected, they are claiming that the industrial action was an "extraordinary circumstance". However, the CAA's page on this says that extraordinary circumstances would include "Strikes (unrelated to the airline such as, airport staff, ground handlers, or air traffic control)". However, this strike was very definitely related to the airline so it seems to me (and I believe others here) that this would NOT be considered extraordinary.
The only question remaining is, has anyone actually succeeded in claiming compensation because of a cancellation caused by the cabin crew? Or will I be the first?
#1392
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8
I have a claim in for the same thing, with the same response (and rebuttal).
#1393
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Posts: 63,763
My original reply to AbileneBound01 is here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28774323-post1340.html
Welcome nevertheless Mattt1, welcome to the BA board here on Flyertalk. I hope you resolve this quickly and that you will continue to be active in this forum.
#1394
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC Silver, VS Gold, Virgin Trains Traveller, Her Majesties Secret Service.
Posts: 407
If a service is overbooked and BA ask for volunteers at check in and you accept, incur an delay to arrival by more than 3 hours, are they liable for compensation?
I guess what I am saying is, does being a volunteer vs involuntary denied boarding get treated differently?
I guess what I am saying is, does being a volunteer vs involuntary denied boarding get treated differently?
#1395
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,763
If a service is overbooked and BA ask for volunteers at check in and you accept, incur an delay to arrival by more than 3 hours, are they liable for compensation?
I guess what I am saying is, does being a volunteer vs involuntary denied boarding get treated differently?
I guess what I am saying is, does being a volunteer vs involuntary denied boarding get treated differently?