Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old Jul 27, 17, 5:26 am
  #1156  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold;BA GGL;
Posts: 17
EC261 Double Dip ?

This may or may not end up as a theoretical argument... After an overnight delay in BUD due to a technical issue the flight I have been rebooked on today is now delayed now by just more than three hours due to another technical issue - Is that one claim or two ?

Whatever the outcome BA must be losing so much money with paying passenger expenses (Hotels not cheap in Budapest at the moment) and compensation if I was a shareholder I would be asking some pointed questions of the leadership...

Canopus stuck in Budapest
canopus is offline  
Old Jul 27, 17, 5:34 am
  #1157  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Programs: BA, IHG, 5C
Posts: 4,200
One cIaim I'm afraid.

If BA had moved you to a different airline you might arguably have had 2 claims.
pauldb is offline  
Old Jul 27, 17, 7:13 am
  #1158  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Originally Posted by pauldb View Post
One cIaim I'm afraid.

If BA had moved you to a different airline you might arguably have had 2 claims.
Why does it need to be on a different airline:

Flight 1 Cancelled - Entitlement under article 5
Replacement Flight 2 Delayed - Separate entitlement.

Last edited by strichener; Jul 27, 17 at 7:53 am
strichener is offline  
Old Jul 27, 17, 8:34 am
  #1159  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by canopus View Post
This may or may not end up as a theoretical argument... After an overnight delay in BUD due to a technical issue the flight I have been rebooked on today is now delayed now by just more than three hours due to another technical issue - Is that one claim or two ?
I got compensated twice for an identical situation during the IT meltdown debacle a couple of months ago. I don't see why it would be just one claim, it's two different flights with two different compensatable events.
Jpsartre is offline  
Old Jul 27, 17, 9:01 am
  #1160  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 315
Originally Posted by canopus View Post
This may or may not end up as a theoretical argument... After an overnight delay in BUD due to a technical issue the flight I have been rebooked on today is now delayed now by just more than three hours due to another technical issue - Is that one claim or two ?

Whatever the outcome BA must be losing so much money with paying passenger expenses (Hotels not cheap in Budapest at the moment) and compensation if I was a shareholder I would be asking some pointed questions of the leadership...

Canopus stuck in Budapest
Two claims.

Do the claim to BA using two separate forms and for the second (delayed) flight do not mention at all why you were in that specific flight, in this way you would avoid BA trying to claim that it was the 'same' flight.
schrodingerdog is offline  
Old Jul 27, 17, 9:09 am
  #1161  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ipswich
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 7,347
Originally Posted by schrodingerdog View Post
Two claims.
Dang. Couldn't you have said it was two claims and one claim simultaneously?
windowontheAside is online now  
Old Jul 27, 17, 9:22 am
  #1162  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
Cool

Originally Posted by windowontheAside View Post
Dang. Couldn't you have said it was two claims and one claim simultaneously?
His colleague told him it was uncertain.
Doc Savage is offline  
Old Jul 28, 17, 1:37 am
  #1163  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Bronze, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 352
Considering how long the regs have been in place and how many strikes have been held across Europe wouldn't at least someone wold have by now had been to court with a test case?

Companies have no control over whether Unions/employees will strike so why should the airline be held responsible... Companies DO NOT call strike action, Unions DO... Maybe the unions/employees should be held accountable and have to pay the compensation as they have the control...

You would get Unions going out on strike demanding 100% pay rises knowing that the airlines would have to give in or pay out Millions in Eu compensation... Just doesn't work...
SonTech is offline  
Old Jul 28, 17, 5:13 am
  #1164  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Originally Posted by SonTech View Post
Considering how long the regs have been in place and how many strikes have been held across Europe wouldn't at least someone wold have by now had been to court with a test case?

Companies have no control over whether Unions/employees will strike so why should the airline be held responsible... Companies DO NOT call strike action, Unions DO... Maybe the unions/employees should be held accountable and have to pay the compensation as they have the control...

You would get Unions going out on strike demanding 100% pay rises knowing that the airlines would have to give in or pay out Millions in Eu compensation... Just doesn't work...
↑ This is an airline industry broadcast.

As a passenger, I don't particularly care about the industrial relations of my supplier whereas as an employee I know that we have many hoops to go through before industrial action can be taken. The notice period for strike action should be sufficient for the company to make operational decisions on how to best mitigate the results of the industrial action.

BA's response appears to be to target specific routes for cancellation and that isn't based on crew availability (nor necessarily routes normally operated by striking employees) but on operational grounds. On this basis, it would not appear to be extraordinary and BA did in fact use this very argument to facilitate the Qatar wet leases. I think BA should be liable to all those on cancelled flights.
strichener is offline  
Old Jul 28, 17, 7:29 am
  #1165  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lausanne Switzerland
Programs: BA Gold; Swiss Blue
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by strichener View Post
↑ This is an airline industry broadcast.

BA's response appears to be to target specific routes for cancellation and that isn't based on crew availability (nor necessarily routes normally operated by striking employees) but on operational grounds. On this basis, it would not appear to be extraordinary and BA did in fact use this very argument to facilitate the Qatar wet leases. I think BA should be liable to all those on cancelled flights.
The same point as I tried to make in post 1146

Glad to see I am not the only person who thinks this way.
SWISSBOBBY is offline  
Old Jul 29, 17, 11:08 pm
  #1166  
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 12,476
Originally Posted by strichener View Post
↑ This is an airline industry broadcast.

As a passenger, I don't particularly care about the industrial relations of my supplier whereas as an employee I know that we have many hoops to go through before industrial action can be taken. The notice period for strike action should be sufficient for the company to make operational decisions on how to best mitigate the results of the industrial action.

BA's response appears to be to target specific routes for cancellation and that isn't based on crew availability (nor necessarily routes normally operated by striking employees) but on operational grounds. On this basis, it would not appear to be extraordinary and BA did in fact use this very argument to facilitate the Qatar wet leases. I think BA should be liable to all those on cancelled flights.
This is all irrelevant when it comes to EC261, those are matters for the operating airline itself and will have no bearing on EC261. The question is if a flight is cancelled because of a shortage of crew due to a strike by its own employees (which it will have been in the circumstances being discussed here) is compensation payable under EC261?

There is a very good basis for arguing that compensation should be paid under EC261, but that is far from clear. This aspect of the Regulation has not been tested to the extent that a binding precedent has been established.

No airline will pay out voluntarily where a cancellation is caused by its own employees' strike action. The only way to force the issue is via CEDR or the county court ... and the result of that is not certain.

This is a technical legal argument that could go either way. People should only proceed to court if they are prepared to argue points of law and face the financial consequences of losing.
Tobias-UK is offline  
Old Jul 30, 17, 3:54 am
  #1167  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,354
On the other hand,BA may not want this to proceed to court.There is downside for them if a precedent finally becomes set.BA may wish to settle on the court steps.
rapidex is offline  
Old Jul 30, 17, 4:28 am
  #1168  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I'd leave it a month. The refund team looks at this via a very manual process, they take several weeks at the best of times, and I imagine they are currently overwhelmed. By all means send a DM via Twitter after a few weeks, or call the Contact Centre. Refund calculation comes in 2 forms, the amount that BA will calculate, and the EC261 calculation. You will find examples upthread as to how to calculate the EC261 version, it's possible the BA internal recalculation will be a higher figure.

Quick update on this. ..

Some 8 weeks since my flight was downgraded, Customer Relations were on the ball for the Compensation element, and all done & dusted in 2 weeks. However, twice I'd been assured the Refunds team had been contacted to calculate and confirm what I'm entitled to as a refund of the fare difference, taking into account the 75% element I'd been advised about whilst in the CCR.

I tried calling the Refunds team direct 10 days ago, but it appears they are still so undermanned, the IVR phone system still tells you they are too busy to put calls through to. So I asked Customer Relations for as estimate of how long I should expect to wait. I also asked if Refunds work on a first-come-first-served basis or some other priority, but that answer isn't forthcoming.

I was promised a call within 5 working days, and was even told who would call me. This was on Fri 21st July, and disappointingly, the call never came.

It's one thing to be overwhelmed and push turnaround times out for working out Refunds (surely it's not a complex mathematical puzzle), but to promise an action and deadline and not see it through, in my book, is simply inexcusable.

Anyone else STILL waiting?
Degsy328 is offline  
Old Jul 31, 17, 11:46 pm
  #1169  
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,959
Originally Posted by canopus View Post
This may or may not end up as a theoretical argument... After an overnight delay in BUD due to a technical issue the flight I have been rebooked on today is now delayed now by just more than three hours due to another technical issue - Is that one claim or two ?

Whatever the outcome BA must be losing so much money with paying passenger expenses (Hotels not cheap in Budapest at the moment) and compensation if I was a shareholder I would be asking some pointed questions of the leadership...

Canopus stuck in Budapest
Since last October I have been paid once and am arguing over a second (I was on a Canx service LCY-AMS (then going to HKG), and was put on LHR-HKG that was delayed 4 hrs 14 mins on arrival).

They are arguing its the same journey. I have multiple ways arguing it isnt (One of which is a few cases here saying it isnt). Since I've been hitting a stone wall I'm now going thru CEDR....
kaka is offline  
Old Jul 31, 17, 11:54 pm
  #1170  
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,959
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
For CEDR you're probably OK to go there now given the passage of time. However I can see merit in doing a final "16 days to pay X€" letter, since if you do decide to go MCOL then it ticks an important box. If you have been hammering away at this since for this many months then I guess another 2 weeks won't make much difference. I'm surprised you have not had a final communication from BA worded along the lines of "our answer will not change".
BTW, they only said "we have paid you already" but nothing along the lines of "our answer will not change".

but perhaps they can be seen the same?
btw2, had anyone tried claiming interest too!?
kaka is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread