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The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Jul 3, 17, 11:23 am
  #976  
 
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Good to hear the updates and that they are working their way through the large volume of claims. My EC261 claim from 27/5 was submitted on 5/6. Still outstanding, but I called last week and they said we should have a response by today, so I will phone again tomorrow.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 12:39 pm
  #977  
 
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For info only and without wishing to bring up *that* issue I saw this in Hansard at the end of the 2nd reading of the Air Travel Organiser's Licensing Bill yesterday when the Minister said in column 993 and almost at then end of this link Hansard

Concerns have been raised about air passenger rights when the UK leaves the EU. The Government are committed to delivering an orderly withdrawal and are preparing to introduce legislation that will preserve the EU acquis on the domestic statute book for the time being. The Government are also seeking to have UK consumers continue to enjoy the strong protections and effective consumer regime that they currently enjoy both inside and outside the EU.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:15 pm
  #978  
 
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I have the following situation:
Flight from outside the EU to an EU country in BA with a connection in London. The BA flight was delayed >3 hours (it actually landed in London with a delay of 200+ minutes, so I would have missed my connection).
At the departure airport, they rerouted me on a direct flight to the EU country. I reached my destination with no delay (in fact I arrived slightly earlier).
BA denies my EU261 compensation claim because I did not arrive to my destination with any delay. However, reading the EU261 rules I think I should get compensation.
Any thoughts?
Also, which enforcement body shall I contact? I believe in my case it would not be the CAA but the body from my destination country?
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:17 pm
  #979  
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Originally Posted by lgflyer View Post
I have the following situation:
Flight from outside the EU to an EU country in BA with a connection in London. The BA flight was delayed >3 hours (it actually landed in London with a delay of 200+ minutes, so I would have missed my connection).
At the departure airport, they rerouted me on a direct flight to the EU country. I reached my destination with no delay (in fact I arrived slightly earlier).
BA denies my EU261 compensation claim because I did not arrive to my destination with any delay. However, reading the EU261 rules I think I should get compensation.
Any thoughts?
Also, which enforcement body shall I contact? I believe in my case it would not be the CAA but the body from my destination country?
You weren't delayed? What compensation do you expect for not being delayed?
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:21 pm
  #980  
 
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BA did exactly the sort of behaviour that EU261 is designed to promote - do more to get the passenger to their destination in a timely manner.

Only if they fail to do that should they have to pay compensation.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:21 pm
  #981  
 
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Were you downgraded on re route lgflyer? Or are you after not awarded TPs or Avios? Beyond this you have no claim of compensation
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:25 pm
  #982  
 
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Did you depart over an hour earlier?
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:28 pm
  #983  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
You weren't delayed? What compensation do you expect for not being delayed?
My flight was delayed but thanks to BA rerouting me I avoided the delay.
This is what BA says on their website:

"These amounts are reduced by 50% if we can offer you an alternative flight route to your final destination with a new scheduled arrival time that doesn’t exceed the original scheduled arrival time by:

Four hours for all other flights."

I was rerouted and my arrival time did not exceed the original time by four hours, in fact arrived early...
But it would seem that this is a valid case...

Originally Posted by mikeyfly View Post
Were you downgraded on re route lgflyer? Or are you after not awarded TPs or Avios? Beyond this you have no claim of compensation
I got BA to post the original avios

Originally Posted by BA6501 View Post
Did you depart over an hour earlier?
Yes, a good 2 or 3 hours earlier

Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
BA did exactly the sort of behaviour that EU261 is designed to promote - do more to get the passenger to their destination in a timely manner.

Only if they fail to do that should they have to pay compensation.
I agree that that is the spirit of the EU261 rules but there are situations like the one I mention where it would seem to me that there is a valid claim...
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:31 pm
  #984  
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Originally Posted by lgflyer View Post
My flight was delayed but thanks to BA rerouting me I avoided the delay.
This is what BA says on their website:

"These amounts are reduced by 50% if we can offer you an alternative flight route to your final destination with a new scheduled arrival time that doesn’t exceed the original scheduled arrival time by:

Four hours for all other flights."

I was rerouted and my arrival time did not exceed the original time by four hours, in fact arrived early...
But it would seem that this is a valid case...
Have a read of the first few posts of this thread which are much better written than that page on BA.com, it may make more sense to you.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:36 pm
  #985  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
Have a read of the first few posts of this thread which are much better written than that page on BA.com, it may make more sense to you.
I had a look already and I could find similar wording...

"A Reduced Amount (50% reduction) applies if BA re-routes you on another service that gets you to your destination, see the next section on cancellations."

"For cancellations and / or when you are rerouted on to another service, some shorter delays attract a half rate payment. If the reroute involves departing less than an hour early, AND arriving less than 2 hours late at the original destination airport, there is no compensation, no matter what (Regulation 5.1.c.iii)."

In my case I left MORE than 1 hour early
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:37 pm
  #986  
 
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Originally Posted by lgflyer View Post
My flight was delayed but thanks to BA rerouting me I avoided the delay.
This is what BA says on their website:

"These amounts are reduced by 50% if we can offer you an alternative flight route to your final destination with a new scheduled arrival time that doesn’t exceed the original scheduled arrival time by:

Four hours for all other flights."

I was rerouted and my arrival time did not exceed the original time by four hours, in fact arrived early...
But it would seem that this is a valid case...



I got BA to post the original avios



Yes, a good 2 or 3 hours earlier



I agree that that is the spirit of the EU261 rules but there are situations like the one I mention where it would seem to me that there is a valid claim...
You simply don't have a claim.

You were re-routed and actually arrived earlier than your original schedule.

That you departed earier that the original schdule does not matter - it only does if your original flight was cancelled - which it wasn't.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:59 pm
  #987  
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
You simply don't have a claim.

You were re-routed and actually arrived earlier than your original schedule.

That you departed earier that the original schdule does not matter - it only does if your original flight was cancelled - which it wasn't.
That's correct. If it was cancelled AND rebooked then leaving more than an hour early does you a claim on Article 7 (compensation), potentially at the 50% rate. But if delayed or potentially delayed then the only thing that matters is whether your arrival at the end point, on the ticket, was more than 3 hours late or not.

The reason for this discrepancy is that the cancellation + rebook is in the original Regulation, and worded fully for the relevant circumstances. There isn't any compensation for delays in the Regulation, none whatsoever. However the CJEU made a ruling that moved the reading of the Regulation to include delays, and the court came up with a flat 3 hour time limit. The Regulation typically has all sorts of bandings in it, but on this point the judges made it a simple 3 hour delay = Article 7 compensation. They didn't rewrite the Regulation as such, it's not their job to do that, so several aspects don't neatly dovetail in with EC261 as a whole.

The one hour limit only occurs in Article 5, the cancellation part of the Regulation so as things stand it only relates to cancellations. Now if a case was made to CJEU saying a greater than 1 hour early departure caused by delays is just as inconvenient as one cause by cancellations, I'm more than 95% sure it would find favour by the Court, but to the best of my knowledge this hasn't happened.

Anyway that is a long way of saying you don't have a case and in a way what BA did was exactly what the Regulation was intended to do: prevent delays to the passenger by proactively coming up with a new schedule. BA, incidentally, are doing this more and more with third country itineraries, I'm told they've added some logic into the rebooking software and they've finally twigged the business case behind this.

But anyway, that's a long way over from me thanking you, lgflyer, for raising the issue, since we will see more cases like this in the future.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 2:15 pm
  #988  
 
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Great, thanks everyone for your help!

Another situation (it was not on BA but on the sister airline "Vueling"): Flight from Spain to LHR with a flight connection in BCN. Flight to BCN delayed >3 hours, I was informed around 10 hours before departure. Asked the airline to rebook me so that I could take a train to BCN and fly directly from BCN on the same BCN-LHR flight.
I jumped on a train and got to BCN in time for my flight. Reached LHR on time.
Again I presume no compensation applies? The airline has already refunded me for the cost of the train ticket.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 2:23 pm
  #989  
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Originally Posted by lgflyer View Post
I jumped on a train and got to BCN in time for my flight. Reached LHR on time.
Again I presume no compensation applies? The airline has already refunded me for the cost of the train ticket.
Again no compensation. Remember the point of the Regulation: it's not to hand out compensation to all and sundry, it's to stop some of the airlines' shady practices. In this case VY appears to have done the right thing.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 2:40 pm
  #990  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Again no compensation. Remember the point of the Regulation: it's not to hand out compensation to all and sundry, it's to stop some of the airlines' shady practices. In this case VY appears to have done the right thing.
Thanks! It was not my case, but having separate tickets would have helped? You could be a bit cheeky, claim the compensation on the 1st ticket and say you decided not to travel due to the delay? And still take the train and board the 2nd ticket?
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