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The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old Jan 14, 2017, 9:24 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by vbroucek
Airlines always have control over your booking, however, they do not touch other then when they change schedules etc. They then notify TA (or you if you booked directly with them). So in your case, if they can prove that they contacted your TA on time, they are out of EC, IMHO. You will now have to take it with the TA and seek compensation from TA.
Thanks for the reply. I assumed they meant they had taken full control over it (due to my outbound being delayed and them having to rebook me).

I did ask for proof of contacting the TA however they glossed over that part of my response. If it is the case that the TA is at fault, are there any ways of getting compensation off them?
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 9:43 pm
  #77  
 
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To be honest, if I read it correctly, after all you were 4 hours and 14 minutes late. I think you should be glad that it was not much worse and suck it up... I doubt you will get anything from TA - most probably they will claim they tried to contact you and could not reach you, bla, bla...

Perhaps you should actually be grateful that BA let you fly at all...
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 9:53 pm
  #78  
 
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Originally Posted by vbroucek
To be honest, if I read it correctly, after all you were 4 hours and 14 minutes late. I think you should be glad that it was not much worse and suck it up... I doubt you will get anything from TA - most probably they will claim they tried to contact you and could not reach you, bla, bla...

Perhaps you should actually be grateful that BA let you fly at all...
Have the enhancements really reached a point where we have to be grateful to an airline we booked a ticket on for letting us fly with them and that's all we expect? Should we disregard arriving 4 hours late, being informed 11 days before travel and having to spend 5 hours on the phone before said airline takes responsibility and does what they should have done anyway?

If we are now at a place where we should just suck up this behaviour from BA and move on and be grateful, I worry.

I wouldn't be pursuing this so much if the communication had been better but it wasn't and they had plenty of ways to inform me before simply deleting my flights.
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 10:04 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by pallan12
Have the enhancements really reached a point where we have to be grateful for an airline we booked a ticket on letting us fly with them and that's all we expect? Should we disregard arriving 4 hours late, being informed 11 days before travel and having to spend 5 hours on the phone before said airline takes responsibility and does what they should have done anyway?

If we are now at a place where we should just suck up this behaviour from BA and move on and be grateful, I worry.

I wouldn't be pursuing this so much if the communication had been better but it wasn't and they had plenty of ways to inform me before simply deleting my flights.
My point is that it was not BA who messed your trip, it was your TA. BA actually could ask you to pay for a new ticket. Your TA according to your original post knew long time ago about the change (Mid October) and did not do anything about it. I don't understand why blaming BA and asking BA for compensation.

Also, according to your own thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...n-lhr-ncl.html) you had concerns about the whole itinerary since November 25. Why didn't you ask your TA?

My TA notifies me via e-mail and via SMS about any change, even 5 minute rescheduling that does not have any impact on my travel.
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 12:22 am
  #80  
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Does anyone know why the BA 32 from HKG is showing 15 hour delay to departure today and whether this is potentially within eu261 reasons?
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 2:06 am
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
The £50 guideline for the taxi element is still in place. This is dodgy if there is no reasonable public transport option or it is late at night. If you initiated the change - or suggested the reroute - then it's on your account. If BA made the change they can try the £50 limit, but they have been known to pay more when challenged (usually over the telephone). If there is no reasonable public transport option AND it was a BA initiated change, I doubt it would stand up in court.

I don't know if they would pay HEX and say £20 of Uber, I suspect they would.
Thanks. Would have reported back on experience but elected to cancel instead!
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 4:03 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by nufnuf77
Does anyone know why the BA 32 from HKG is showing 15 hour delay to departure today and whether this is potentially within eu261 reasons?
BA31 on 14 January was scheduled at 1825-1420+1, but was delayed for reason ZO and is estimated to depart on 15 January at 1600, arriving 16 January at 1139.

Consequently BA32 on 15 January has been delayed from 2330-0445+1 to an estimated departure of 16 January at 1400, arriving at LHR on 16 January at 1915.

This post says "ZO" means "operational": http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27135203-post17.html
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 4:37 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by pallan12
I'm unsure where to really go next with this, I feel if I go down the MCOL route, BA will probably find a way out of it.
I can't see an obvious way out for BA. Article 5.4 is totally clear:

Originally Posted by EC261
4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier.
It doesn't say travel agent. BA's response implies the travel agent holds this responsibility, and on a commonsense level I would agree. One reason to be very careful about using online travel agents is that they aren't agents at all, just data processors, bit that's by the by. Equally commonsense would dictate BA would also contact you as well, via the two sets of information they hold on you (ticket and BAEC presumably), it was BA's choice not to do that. Commonsense will come into it if it ends up in the Small Claims channel, but is in fact bound up with what is in the Regulation, which is crystal clear: BA have to tell you of these change, they chose not to do so, and so cannot provide the burden of proof mentioned above.

The sideshow that may come into this was that the MCT failure was, if I've understood correctly, due to changes by both AA and BA to the original timetable. I'm interpreting BA as being the operating airline since it is their, rather silly, MCT that is at play here, and it was their rules that made a perfectly sensible connection unviable.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 1:10 pm
  #84  
 
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A request for help...

Hi all,

I've been lurking these forum for some time. I'm in need of your collective wisdom to check my facts, and my understanding of the EC 261/2004 framework.

I started my journey from MAD on the BA457 in CE which was due in at LHR at 12:35 GMT, and connecting onto the BA173 to JFK in First departing at 13:55 GMT and arriving 17:15 Eastern . (In hindsight, looking at the flight status for today’s BA flights from MAD to LHR it is not pretty; there are a tonne of cancellations!)

The flight turned around back for MAD about 2/3rd way in and we arrived back in MAD around 14.20 local, due to a technical issue on the wing / de-icing system around the engine(?)

I spoke to the GGL team as soon as we touched down at MAD (to •••••• and ••••• separately) and they were excellent. They held seats across a raft of flights departing MAD to LHR, specifically the 14:55 (IB3172), the 15:50 (BA7058 operated by Iberia) and the 16:40 (BA7056 operated by Iberia) and also held connecting flights to JFK.

Meanwhile, the captain spoke to the passengers, stating that the flight would hopefully be leaving in an hour, and that all passengers who were connecting were being looked after by the Heathrow reconnections team and that if you had connections, to stay in your seat and not deplane. I decided to go against this advice on the personal advice of the CSD/Purser who said that the likelihood of the BA457 taking off any time soon was about 1-2%, and that if the GGL team were assisting me, they were my best bet.

I missed the IB3172 but managed, with about 2 mins spare, to board the BA7058 after having the Iberia reissue the ticket for the new MAD-LHR flight. (As an aside, it has been a long time since I have flown Iberia but I must have lucked out as I flew the daily A330. The food was great, so too were the crew and the seat is well… just a little bit better than CE! It was a restful surprise.

Back to the point…

I landed into LHR at 17:13 and doors were open by 17:28 at T5C. The next flight to JFK was the BA179 departing at 18:00. I was at flight connections in T5A by 17:35.

The connections team leader (••••••••• ••••••••••) called the TSR(not sure what this?) at the gate to see if they could hold the flight and the TSR (••••• [last name unknown]) correctly called that since I would be a technically late passenger, he would not delay an on-time flight. Can’t argue with that one bit.

I was finally re-booked on to the BA183 departing at 19:55 due in to JFK at 22:50 Eastern

I’ve completely missed this evening’s events that I am meant to be in NYC for…

If I have understood what has been contributed to the board, I think I would qualify for €600 compensation due to arriving in JFK at 22:50 as opposed to 17:15 which is more than the 3 hours. Is this correct? Would it be fair to say that is all that is possible to claim for? I don’t think I qualify for anything else on the basis that I am not abandoning the trip in its entirety.

I welcome your thoughts.

Best, and thank you in advance.

FlyingRabbit

Last edited by Prospero; Jan 16, 2017 at 1:49 pm Reason: edit out staff names per FT rules
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 1:36 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by TheFlyingRabbit
If I have understood what has been contributed to the board, I think I would qualify for €600 compensation due to arriving in JFK at 22:50 as opposed to 17:15 which is more than the 3 hours. Is this correct? Would it be fair to say that is all that is possible to claim for? I don’t think I qualify for anything else on the basis that I am not abandoning the trip in its entirety.
You could indeed have got a full refund by returning to MAD, so long as you could supply evidence that the trip would have had no purpose. If you missed a dinner but had booked the return for 3 weeks later, that may require further explanation, by way of an example. The 600€ looks a reasonable proposition, but the aborted flight from MAD strikes me as sailing close to the Extraordinary Circumstances issue. Clearly if it didn't take off due to technical difficulties then you would have been OK. If there was a mayday then you're definitely not going to get compensation. And this seems somewhere in between. But I would apply, it may be down on the list as purely a technical fault and your claim will go through on the nod.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 1:51 pm
  #86  
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It is strange that a plane would turn around 2/3rd into the flight when it would have been quicker (and safer?) to continue on to LHR.

That might be a point you should keep in reserve should BA/IB start to quibble about your claim.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 6:47 pm
  #87  
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear
It is strange that a plane would turn around 2/3rd into the flight when it would have been quicker (and safer?) to continue on to LHR.

That might be a point you should keep in reserve should BA/IB start to quibble about your claim.
The issue with the de-icing system meant that a landing at LHR was dangerous, as it was much colder than Madrid. I was also on BA0457 today and that was the impression I got from the captain.

Also, we weren't 2/3rd into the flight (although it certainly felt like it!). It was 45 min back to Madrid from the turnaround point.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 7:07 pm
  #88  
 
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Rabbit,
Yes you should be entitled as you were more than 3 hours late at your final destination.
Only if BA argued exceptional circumstances for the MAD LHR element (which would semi automatically carry forward to any connections) would you not and it is very rare these days for technical issues to be exempted.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:25 pm
  #89  
 
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Thank you all very much for your advice - I will have a go and I shall report back with my outcome in due course.

Many thanks.
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Old Jan 17, 2017, 1:59 am
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear
It is strange that a plane would turn around 2/3rd into the flight when it would have been quicker (and safer?) to continue on to LHR.

That might be a point you should keep in reserve should BA/IB start to quibble about your claim.
Perhaps not.If the engine anti ice system had failed,the aircraft would need to be in clear air at 10 degrees or lower.That might not be possible at LHR,but quite possible at MAD.
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