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The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Nov 5, 17, 4:32 am
  #1651  
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Originally Posted by 710 77345 View Post
No. Just the normal attempts to deny passsengers their rights.
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I can see this is an arguable case from BA's point of view, it's not without some merit.

[snip]

This sort of correspondence isn't going to be overturned internally by BA in my experience, so you will need to go elsewhere.
Ok thanks for the feedback.
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Old Nov 5, 17, 8:56 am
  #1652  
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Suggestion for incorporation into the FAQs, if anyone knows the answer :

If you use a third party site (such as Bott online) to check your flight and it comes back as claimable, does this generally mean :

(a) they know that the carrier, route and length of delay brings the flight into the remit of EU261
or
(b) additionally, they know that the cause of delay is not 'exceptional circumstances' and that a claim stands a reasonable chance of success
or
(c) additionally, they know that BA have already admitted liability and paid up to other claimants.
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Old Nov 5, 17, 10:08 am
  #1653  
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Originally Posted by Oxon Flyer View Post
Suggestion for incorporation into the FAQs, if anyone knows the answer :

If you use a third party site (such as Bott online) to check your flight and it comes back as claimable, does this generally mean :

(a) they know that the carrier, route and length of delay brings the flight into the remit of EU261
or
(b) additionally, they know that the cause of delay is not 'exceptional circumstances' and that a claim stands a reasonable chance of success
or
(c) additionally, they know that BA have already admitted liability and paid up to other claimants.
I don't know, but having tried a few of these out in the past (I think it's one database with multiple front ends used by multiple claims handlers) it seems to be a (a) route eligibility and (b) excluding well know bad weather days. There have been a few cases mentioned here in the past where (b) could have applied but didn't, so it was a bad weather day but the cancellation was actually due to a technical issue, and the database is found not to be accurate.

Personally I wouldn't rely on this source of information, since they aren't totally open about exactly where the information comes from. Overwhelmingly the best information is from what the captain says in his or her greeting, I've never known them not give a clear reason at least on BA flights, and indeed on many other airlines too. The next best source is the dispatch information in Expert Flyer, though that vanishes very quickly.
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Old Nov 5, 17, 10:34 am
  #1654  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
... Personally I wouldn't rely on this source of information, since they aren't totally open about exactly where the information comes from...
I agree. I suspect the form-filling is more about collecting the passenger's details so they can chase up later.

It will of course check route eligibility, time triggers for delays and perhaps weather but I suspect the form is more about them obtaining the passenger's details for follow up rather than provide an accurate indication of whether a claim is likely to succeed.
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Old Nov 5, 17, 11:57 am
  #1655  
 
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Originally Posted by Oxon Flyer View Post
Suggestion for incorporation into the FAQs, if anyone knows the answer :

If you use a third party site (such as Bott online) to check your flight and it comes back as claimable, does this generally mean :

(a) they know that the carrier, route and length of delay brings the flight into the remit of EU261
or
(b) additionally, they know that the cause of delay is not 'exceptional circumstances' and that a claim stands a reasonable chance of success
or
(c) additionally, they know that BA have already admitted liability and paid up to other claimants.
For your example only.

A) Yes
B) Yes
C) Yes

and a lot more!

From my experience it is very accurate.

I know that a great deal of effort goes into the accuracy of their database, as it is key to their business. Which is also why much detail is not in the public domain.
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Old Nov 5, 17, 1:04 pm
  #1656  
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Originally Posted by Tyzap View Post
For your example only.

A) Yes
B) Yes
C) Yes

and a lot more!

From my experience it is very accurate.

I know that a great deal of effort goes into the accuracy of their database, as it is key to their business. Which is also why much detail is not in the public domain.
How do you know this? The tool is good at ruling out claims that don't mathematically qualify or which otherwise don't qualify because of route/carrier but for the rest it appears to churn out a result that says 'you appear to have a claim and may be entitled to X pounds'.
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Old Nov 5, 17, 1:48 pm
  #1657  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
The tool is good at ruling out claims that don't mathematically qualify or which otherwise don't qualify because of route/carrier but for the rest it appears to churn out a result that says 'you appear to have a claim and may be entitled to X pounds'.
Originally Posted by Bott online
We are confident enough to take on cases on a no-win no-fee basis based on checking the flight details against the information held in our database
I had a dig around and found this. I read this as if database says yes, they will take on the risk and costs of presenting your case, which suggests the database decision is based on a depth of knowledge greater than simple mathematical exclusion or appearance of eligibility.
Tyzap likes this.
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Old Nov 5, 17, 5:51 pm
  #1658  
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Originally Posted by Oxon Flyer View Post
I had a dig around and found this. I read this as if database says yes, they will take on the risk and costs of presenting your case, which suggests the database decision is based on a depth of knowledge greater than simple mathematical exclusion or appearance of eligibility.
They will grab data from publicly available data sources (similar to the information we find in Expert Flyer) to establish and verify the reason for the IRROP.

Even though they take on cases based on the return from their online tool, they are not obliged to take that case all the way to court. Going to court will depend on the reasons the airline gives for the IRROP. If the claim is outside EC261 they will not proceed. That tool will be no more reliable than any information provided here.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 9:37 am
  #1659  
 
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This is a bit cheeky of me, as the situation actually applies to another airline (AZ), but I don't know where else on Flyertalk I could get promptly and comparably competent help.

Let's say I have a one way ticket (single ticket, single PNR) that includes a connection, LYC - LIN - CAG. Let's say there is a schedule change (more than two weeks before departure) that makes the connection at YYY under the MCT. The airline moves me to an earlier LCY - LIN, leaving the LIN - CAG unchanged.

Let's say that the LCY - LIN I have been moved to is almost 5 hours earlier than the original flight.

From a legal stand-point, would I have any other option but accepting the change or getting a full refund?

Would travel insurances cover in a scenario like this? I have asked my insurance (American Express Platinum card), but the representative could not give me a definitive answer without speaking to the supervisor first, and I won't have an answer before tomorrow.

In the meantime, if I have to make alternative arrangements, there is a chance the cost of the tickets will increase... we're talking about Christmas time after all.

Last edited by ringingup; Nov 7, 17 at 9:45 am
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Old Nov 7, 17, 9:44 am
  #1660  
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Is there a reason why you cannot post the actual routing and airline details? That would help provide more accurate responses.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 9:46 am
  #1661  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Is there a reason why you cannot post the actual routing and airline details? That would help provide more accurate responses.
No, no specific reason apart from being OT. I have edited my original post. But we're talking about LCY-LIN-CAG on a AZ reward flight.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 9:54 am
  #1662  
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Originally Posted by ringingup View Post
No, no specific reason apart from being OT. I have edited my original post. But we're talking about LCY-LIN-CAG on a AZ reward flight.
In the context of this thread, is this not covered by point 10 in post 1 which states that:

"10) Changes to existing bookings
If you are given more that 14 days notice of a change then you are not entitled to compensation for the delay. You are entitled to a refund or a rebooked service, it's your decision. See Post 3 about the duty of care aspects."
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Old Nov 7, 17, 10:03 am
  #1663  
 
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Originally Posted by golfmad View Post
In the context of this thread, is this not covered by point 10 in post 1 which states that:

"10) Changes to existing bookings
If you are given more that 14 days notice of a change then you are not entitled to compensation for the delay. You are entitled to a refund or a rebooked service, it's your decision. See Post 3 about the duty of care aspects."
Well, it is. They are offering a refund and I have been rebooked on to the immediately earlier service and they don't want to move me onto another service from LHR that would be closer to the original departure time. They say that it's not something they do with award tickets, they only move you if there is award availability. They don't even want to move me to an earlier LIN-CAG that would allow me to avoid a long layover in LIN.

BA, if I'm not wrong, would be much more reasonable, even with Avios tickets.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 10:07 am
  #1664  
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Originally Posted by ringingup View Post
Well, it is. They are offering a refund and I have been rebooked on to the immediately earlier service and they don't want to move me onto another service from LHR that would be closer to the original departure time. They say that it's not something they do with award tickets, they only move you if there is award availability. They don't even want to move me to an earlier LIN-CAG that would allow me to avoid a long layover in LIN.

BA, if I'm not wrong, would be much more reasonable, even with Avios tickets.
I don't think it is a rebooking of your choice, it is just any rebooking or a refund which is what AZ have done.

If you book reward tickets through BAEC but on partner airlines you can similarly find your options are limited only to rebooking where there is reward space on the partner airline.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 10:12 am
  #1665  
 
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
I don't think it is a rebooking of your choice, it is just any rebooking or a refund which is what AZ have done.

If you book reward tickets through BAEC but on partner airlines you can similarly find your options are limited only to rebooking where there is reward space on the partner airline.
Thanks @KARFA, that is what I feared. It is just a little lame that they would not allow any flexibility at all considering they are operating the services. On the other hand, they are bankrupt, so it makes sense that they should not be burning cash.

Any opinions on whether this is something the insurer would like cover? I will probably cancel and rebook with Easyjet to OLB anyway, but it would be ideal I didn't have to pay anything extra.
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