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The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old Feb 7, 2017, 6:09 am
  #151  
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Originally Posted by opalfruit
So, 2x €250 EC261 claims, right?
I don't see the reason for the cancellation, but if it was technical then you would seem to be correct here.
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 6:24 am
  #152  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I don't see the reason for the cancellation, but if it was technical then you would seem to be correct here.
Technical fault with the incoming aircraft was all the gate agent could muster, but I see the GDS sources don't show the cancellation properly yet.

The inbound plane took a pretty odd last-minute holding pattern on approach (I guess causing the first delay to the outbound service). No idea what the issue is.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...ba8491#c611837

The aircraft stayed parked at a remote stand until after we departed on the BA8494 (operated by the incoming BA8493). Looks like it operated the BA8490 this morning, which ended up diverting to STN - bad weather at LCY maybe?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...g-lcyn#c636ca3
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 6:34 am
  #153  
 
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Is there an agreed way to calculate this when a package holiday and UUA makes it all a bit complex?

For example if booking a package to East Coast USA with car and hotel and then UUA from W to J, what happens if that particular sector is downgraded? Can BA choose how to calculate the value of that J to W downgrade when the price paid was including a car, hotel and a discount? Can they get away with just refunding the Avios?

Just interested to know in case ever offered anything at an airport so I know whether to accept / reject the offer.
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 6:40 am
  #154  
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Originally Posted by HarryKUK

Just interested to know in case ever offered anything at an airport so I know whether to accept / reject the offer.
It could be incredibly complex to work out if it was a BA Holidays booking, I can see several ways of doing it, I guess we best walk through the specifics once there is a real case and hard numbers. But in terms of being offered something at the airport, I can't actually see any benefit in rejecting a Mastercard at the airport, it doesn't change the end result, and in some ways you can try to argue it was ex-gratia. It's rarely offered as a choice anyway, however your best bet would be to ask to be rebooked on to the next available service.
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 7:27 am
  #155  
 
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Well - for all the BA bashing that we've all done (myself included) I can't complain about this - submitted my EC261 case to BA approximately 2 mins after reading CWS's post a little over an hour ago, and had a BA CR staffer call me just now to confirm that €250 will be winging its way into my bank in the next 3-5 working days.

Now, if only we could get priority boarding sorted.
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 8:08 am
  #156  
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Originally Posted by opalfruit
Well - for all the BA bashing that we've all done (myself included) I can't complain about this - submitted my EC261 case to BA approximately 2 mins after reading CWS's post a little over an hour ago, and had a BA CR staffer call me just now to confirm that €250 will be winging its way into my bank in the next 3-5 working days.

Now, if only we could get priority boarding sorted.
Crikey, that was fast!
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 8:44 am
  #157  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
En route delay could be the wind strength on the day, which presented a headwind delay, or an ATC restriction on the arrival time. That would be extraordinary circumstances. But the bit which doesn't add up is the 157 minutes you quote, and a departure of 22:23, over 3 hours late, assuming that is the pushback time (ie taken from BA.com). There are ways that could add up - e.g. a slot restriction, but there's not enough information in BA response to be sure. So you could ask BA to clarify how 157 minutes relates to the delayed departure time. It's actually arrival time that matters in terms of EC261 payment, but clearly if you leave far too late to make the 3 hour cut off, then the airline needs to get its ducks in a row a bit better. The Regs make it clear that the onus is on BA to prove this, not on you, so you could invite BA to clarify the 157 minutes in the next 16 days otherwise you will take the matter further.

I've asked BA to clarify. I still also have the BA flight tracked on the BA iPad app and while it was scheduled to arrive 2hrs 55mins late, the Changi Airport app put the plane landing more than 3hrs after its scheduled arrival.

What's funny is BA15 departed LHR after BA11 but arrived ahead of the A380 because it took a completely different route over the Mid-East and Central Europe instead of over Russia.
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 10:39 am
  #158  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
It could be incredibly complex to work out if it was a BA Holidays booking, I can see several ways of doing it, I guess we best walk through the specifics once there is a real case and hard numbers. But in terms of being offered something at the airport, I can't actually see any benefit in rejecting a Mastercard at the airport, it doesn't change the end result, and in some ways you can try to argue it was ex-gratia. It's rarely offered as a choice anyway, however your best bet would be to ask to be rebooked on to the next available service.
Not really. I had a recent BA Holiday booking.

In the My Flights App it displayed the ticket price of the air fare element of the holiday which was then separated into the total price, the 'tax' element and the fare element.
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 1:45 pm
  #159  
 
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But then a discount is applied, and if then UUA is done how do they work out what the value of a downgrade is?

Also, as in my most recent booking, WT+ was £20 cheaper than WT, so how do you work out the cost of that downgrade? Or can they pull a figure out of the air? Are there set charts to go by?
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Old Feb 7, 2017, 1:59 pm
  #160  
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as the reimbursement is based on the segment cost of the ticket you paid for it surely makes no difference that WT was cheaper than WTP.

remember its a % of the fare paid not the fare difference.
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Old Feb 9, 2017, 12:28 pm
  #161  
 
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Originally Posted by TheFlyingRabbit
Thank you all very much for your advice - I will have a go and I shall report back with my outcome in due course.

Many thanks.
Just a quick note / update:

BA Customer Services called me within 24 hours of submitting the claim, and asked for bank details to pay the €600. I was told to expect the payment to hit my account in 2-3 days.

Credit due to the Customer Services for the speed of the response.
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Old Feb 9, 2017, 12:31 pm
  #162  
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Originally Posted by TheFlyingRabbit
Credit due to the Customer Services for the speed of the response.
That's slow by the standards of opalfruit, he got his refund between 2 posts on FT! But the new policy of calling customers seems to cheer people up, from what I'm seeing. Thank you for reporting back.
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Old Feb 10, 2017, 3:14 am
  #163  
 
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Help please re EC261 and Amex 2-4-1 and downgrade

I’d really appreciate your help with my claim for compensation from BA. I have read this excellent thread in detail and followed the links (although I can’t get the Flightmole link to work), but have two remaining questions to which as yet I cannot find the answers.

First the facts. My wife and I were due to fly back from GCM to LHR via NAS on 7 February 2017 in CW on flight BA252. This was the return leg of an Avios and Amex 2-4-1 redemption. The inbound BA253 terminated at NAS due to a malfunctioning weather radar and returned to LHR without visiting GCM, so our flight was cancelled. The next BA252 was on 9 February but there was no availability in CW. Indeed there is still no availability in CW on BA252 until 12 February. We therefore reluctantly accepted a return routing on 8 February on American in economy to MIA and then from MIA to LHR on BA208 in WTP; at the time we were told that there was no CW availability on BA208 on 8 February.

On arrival at MIA on 8 Feb I signed up for Expert Flyer and, 4 hours before scheduled departure, noted that there were three seats available in CW on BA208, and one in First. We approached the gate agent and explained our situation and asked whether we might be allocated seats in CW. She spent 20 minutes on the phone to operations without success and asked us to wait in the lounge where they would find us and update us. On entering the lounge we again made the agent aware of the situation. I refreshed Expert Flyer right up until boarding – the seat map in CW changed frequently, with the seats listed as available changing but still at least two being available, until 90 minutes before departure when the final two seats changed to ‘blocked’, and then shortly after to occupied. Nobody from BA approached us but when we asked the lounge agent 2 hours before departure for an update we were told that Expert Flyer is unreliable and there was no chance we would be seated in CW. We therefore flew home in WTP. As we had a 250 mile drive home after landing we had counted on the flat bed to get some sleep so this was not ideal.

Whilst waiting in the lounge and since returning home I have been in contact with BA via Twitter. They immediately accepted that EC261 compensation of 600 Euros each is due, but are disputing the compensation I believe is due for the downgrade. They initially claimed that EC261 does not apply to Avios or Amex 2-4-1 redemptions, but only to ‘revenue bookings’. I referred them to Article 3.3 of EC261 and they are currently considering. The redemption booking cost 125,000 Avios plus an Amex 2-4-1, so effectively 250,000 Avios. My reading of EC261 is that we are due back 75% of the ‘price paid’. Because a voucher cannot be partially refunded I am interpreting the amount due back to us as being 75% of the Avios, i.e. 187,500, plus 75% of the fees and taxes paid, amounting to a further £813. We also paid for selected seats so are due back the element relating to the return leg. I see from point 25 of the first post of this thread that there is some ambiguity over Amex 2-4-1 downgrades, although reading the regulation to me it is clear that use of the voucher is part of the price paid, exactly as for Avios, which is specifically covered under Article 3.3. As BA may continue to push back on this I would appreciate any advice or insights that you can offer.

My second question relates to the accuracy of Expert Flyer. Are the seat maps I saw in the few hours leading up to departure of BA208 accurate, and if so am I understanding correctly that there may have been CW seats available that BA chose not to allocate to us, perhaps because we were on Avios redemption flights and both lowly silvers, and may instead have used to upgrade other passengers? If so, then I am minded to push for a full refund of the entire price paid and Avios used as BA will have wilfully breached the contract between us to fly us in the CW seats for which we paid, albeit using Avios and a voucher.

I have pointed out to them that had we exercised our right to wait in GCM until they could offer us return flights under ‘comparable transport conditions’, as required by EC261, then they would have been faced with an additional 4 nights of hotel accommodation and refreshment costs which would have considerably exceeded the amount I am now seeking.

Many thanks in advance for any help and insights you can offer.
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Old Feb 10, 2017, 3:29 am
  #164  
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Originally Posted by FlyboyStu

My second question relates to the accuracy of Expert Flyer. Are the seat maps I saw in the few hours leading up to departure of BA208 accurate, and if so am I understanding correctly that there may have been CW seats available that BA chose not to allocate to us, perhaps because we were on Avios redemption flights and both lowly silvers, and may instead have used to upgrade other passengers?
I have had a read through your post but I am just going to respond to the bit on EF. If you were looking at the seat map to determine availability you were looking at the wrong part of EF - seat maps are not a reliable way to accurately determine how may seats an airline is willing to sell on a flight.

In order to determine availability you should be looking at the Flight Availability section. Let me give you an example, let's say I am supposed to be heading from NRT to LHR today in J and for some reason I have had my travel plans disrupted and can only go tomorrow. I do a search for TYO to LHR for tomorrow on the flight availability section and these are the results:

Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Code:
Flight Availability Search
Departing TYO on 11/02/17 12:00 AM for LHR
Flying BA  
Exclude Codeshares
Point of Sale: UK


                                                                     Frequency
Flight        Stops  Depart             Arrive             Aircraft  Reliability     Available Classes
0 Connections
BA 8          0      HND                LHR                777       Su,W,Sa         F1 A1 J0 C0 D0 R0 I0 W9 E1 T0 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L8 V5 S0 N9 Q0 O9 G9 
                     11/02/17 9:45 AM   11/02/17 1:35 PM             93% / 17m

0 Connections
BA 6          0      NRT                LHR                789       Daily           F5 A5 J6 C0 D0 R0 I0 W7 E1 T1 Y9 B5 H5 K5 M5 L5 V3 S0 N5 Q0 O5 G3 
                     11/02/17 12:35 PM  11/02/17 4:25 PM             98% / 9m
I look down and I can see that BA8 has 0 in all business selling classes so it is pointless me asking the agent to try and book me on that. However, BA6 is still at J6 which means BA are still willing to sell 6 seats in J selling class. Based on that I will ask the agent to book me on BA6.

Last edited by KARFA; Feb 10, 2017 at 4:19 am
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Old Feb 10, 2017, 3:45 am
  #165  
 
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Thanks Karfa; that's clear - and I was indeed looking at the seat maps.
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