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The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Oct 28, 17, 3:44 am
  #1621  
 
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Originally Posted by AbileneBound View Post
Seems that CEDR have a backlog of cases. There was a deadline of 20th October for a response and they just got in touch to let me know they are delayed and are still looking at my claim. I'll keep you updated of any progress.
Nothing terribly exciting, but CEDR have confirmed that they have accepted my case. BA now have 15 days to:

Attempt to settle the dispute with the customer via this platform
Object to adjudication on grounds of eligibility
Submit a written Defence to the claim

Going by recent posts it seems possible that they will attempt to settle with an attached NDA. If so, should I just accept the NDA, or request additional compensation for doing so?
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Old Oct 28, 17, 4:27 am
  #1622  
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Originally Posted by AbileneBound View Post
Going by recent posts it seems possible that they will attempt to settle with an attached NDA. If so, should I just accept the NDA, or request additional compensation for doing so?
Well I'm struggling a bit with this NDA business since I've seen about a dozen CEDR settlements and not one had an NDA on it, one did have an internal CEDR note asking for temporary non disclosure due an unusual legal complication, but that's it so far. On the other hand some people have indicated there was some confidentiality involved, so I can't be certain. However you are under no obligation to accept an NDA just as BA is under no obligation to settle with or without one. Worst case scenario is that it would end up at MCOL, and that's in the public domain anyway.

Personally I don't think asking for extra here is constructive: the point of this and other consumer protections is to correct customer service shortcomings within a legal framework. If the proposed settlement looks good, and saves you further hassle, you should accept. If it doesn't meet your expectations then you should not accept.
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Old Oct 28, 17, 5:16 am
  #1623  
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I have to disagree with the advice of not asking for more if the other party proposes an CDA. One party clearly would be proposing a CDA only if is of some advantage to them, and in that situation it is perfectly equitable for the recipient to ask for more to agree to it. In layman’s terms, if they want me to be silent they will have to pay.
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Old Oct 28, 17, 9:03 am
  #1624  
 
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The only reasoning that I can come up with for the inclusion of a confidentiality clause is to prevent others from knowing about, or being encouraged to also make a claim.

This is a despicable and deliberate attempt to prevent genuine, valid claims from being made in the first place. I hope the CAA or other NEB is prepared to do something about it, as this would fly in the face of both the spirit and intention of the regulations.

There may be some rare occasions when an airline has a particular reason for requiring a confidentiality clause following a court hearing. Although I cannot think of a practical reason when this could be so.

However, I believe that to use it as a blanket practice in all or even most CEDR cases would probably equate to a restrictive practice.

If an NEB did consider this to be a restrictive practice, they could take action against the airline. Particularly if other airlines also suddenly start to include confidentiality clauses upon claimants who have successfully defended a claim via CEDR or other adjudicator.

As mentioned before, there is some evidence just beginning to emerge that this may be the case, as BA is not the only airline to have very recently begun this practice. It's too early to tell at the moment, but it's a situation that needs monitoring.

Hopefully all fair minded claimants will resist this practice and see it for what it is.
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Old Oct 28, 17, 9:16 am
  #1625  
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Originally Posted by Tyzap View Post
The only reasoning that I can come up with for the inclusion of a confidentiality clause is to prevent others from knowing about, or being encouraged to also make a claim.

This is a despicable and deliberate attempt to prevent genuine, valid claims from being made in the first place. I hope the CAA or other NEB is prepared to do something about it, as this would fly in the face of both the spirit and intention of the regulations.

There may be some rare occasions when an airline has a particular reason for requiring a confidentiality clause following a court hearing. Although I cannot think of a practical reason when this could be so.

However, I believe that to use it as a blanket practice in all or even most CEDR cases would probably equate to a restrictive practice.

If an NEB did consider this to be a restrictive practice, they could take action against the airline. Particularly if other airlines also suddenly start to include confidentiality clauses upon claimants who have successfully defended a claim via CEDR or other adjudicator.

As mentioned before, there is some evidence just beginning to emerge that this may be the case, as BA is not the only airline to have very recently begun this practice. It's too early to tell at the moment, but it's a situation that needs monitoring.

Hopefully all fair minded claimants will resist this practice and see it for what it is.
At what point in proceedings are these alleged confidentiality clauses being introduced? Is it CEDR who of their own motion are marking their adjudications ‘confidential’?
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Old Oct 28, 17, 10:37 am
  #1626  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
At what point in proceedings are these alleged confidentiality clauses being introduced? Is it CEDR who of their own motion are marking their adjudications ‘confidential’?
I have no inside knowledge, only anecdotal evidence supplied by claimants who have just been gagged! thus not a strong flow of information.

I very much doubt it has anything to do with CEDR tho.
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Old Oct 28, 17, 11:00 am
  #1627  
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Originally Posted by Tyzap View Post
I have no inside knowledge, only anecdotal evidence supplied by claimants who have just been gagged! thus not a strong flow of information.

I very much doubt it has anything to do with CEDR tho.
Many thanks for coming back to me. In the meantime, being a Saturday morning in my part of the world, I've been doing a little extra digging around. I've discovered it is not the airline that is doing the gagging but CEDR!

In the CEDR Guidance Notes I see the following (bolding is my emphasis): "The adjudicator will publish a written decision to both parties. The decision is confidential to the parties and is contractually binding on the airline if the passenger chooses to accept it...".
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Old Oct 28, 17, 1:03 pm
  #1628  
 
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I recently had a chat with someone at the BAEC silver line, which was very interesting, but gives me a couple of follow up questions.

I was phoning to speak about the reason for a delay on one of my flights, and while on the line he told me that there had been 13 claims for compensation on that flight, and then he proceeded to open all of them to check if any had been successful or resolved.

He didnt give me any personal information, just status of them.

so, first question, with only 13 claims + mine, for a long haul flight which was over 4 hours delayed.. is this a normal claim rate? do most people just not know their rights?

and secondly, if BA, or CEDR decide that one of the cases is successful, does BA automatically apply the ruling to all claims on the flight, or do all claimants need to continue to fight?
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Old Oct 28, 17, 1:16 pm
  #1629  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Many thanks for coming back to me. In the meantime, being a Saturday morning in my part of the world, I've been doing a little extra digging around. I've discovered it is not the airline that is doing the gagging but CEDR!

In the CEDR Guidance Notes I see the following (bolding is my emphasis): "The adjudicator will publish a written decision to both parties. The decision is confidential to the parties and is contractually binding on the airline if the passenger chooses to accept it...".
That probably means that CEDR will not publicly disclose the adjudication information to anyone other than the parties concerned.

I have seen many reports from successful claimants, giving full chapter and verse, so I doubt they understood it in the way that you suggest.
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Old Oct 28, 17, 1:17 pm
  #1630  
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Originally Posted by Tyzap View Post
That probably means that CEDR will not publicly disclose the adjudication information to anyone other than the parties concerned.

I have seen many reports from successful claimants, giving full chapter and verse, so I doubt they understood it in the way that you suggest.
I haven't suggested anything

EDIT: Please ignore this @Tyzap - I completely misread your post.

Last edited by Tobias-UK; Oct 28, 17 at 2:19 pm
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Old Oct 28, 17, 1:22 pm
  #1631  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
I haven't suggested anything
You suggested today that CEDR were gagging claimants from sharing the results of the arbitration. Did you not mean this?


Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Originally Posted by Tyzap View Post
I have no inside knowledge, only anecdotal evidence supplied by claimants who have just been gagged!
I very much doubt it has anything to do with CEDR tho.
I've been doing a little extra digging around. I've discovered it is not the airline that is doing the gagging but CEDR!
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Old Oct 28, 17, 1:42 pm
  #1632  
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Originally Posted by holloway1000 View Post
so, first question, with only 13 claims + mine, for a long haul flight which was over 4 hours delayed.. is this a normal claim rate? do most people just not know their rights?

and secondly, if BA, or CEDR decide that one of the cases is successful, does BA automatically apply the ruling to all claims on the flight, or do all claimants need to continue to fight?
For the first question: there is a range of factors here. Some people submit their claims many years after the event. Some people would not be entitled to compensation (e.g. they had a long connection and got to their destination under 3 hours late). Some people can't be bothered to claim, I've done that. But yes, there are going to be many people simply unaware of their entitlements.

For the second question, if CEDR does decide a case is successful, I don't believe it directly populates all other claims (and there may be circumstances in terms of start or end point which may be unique to each claim), but there again if a claimant continues to push for payment then it's likely BA will throw in the towel earlier on. I can't see CEDR being impressed by repeated cases coming up over and again for the same flight.
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Old Oct 28, 17, 2:20 pm
  #1633  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
I haven't suggested anything
"I've discovered it is not the airline that is doing the gagging but CEDR!"

No, suppose not, it's more of a statement of fact.
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Old Oct 29, 17, 2:29 am
  #1634  
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I have taken advantage of vacant post number 8 - at the top of this thread - to put some pointers about using MCOL, based primarily on a number of PMs I have received from different cases at different stages of the process. These pointers can't be attributed to individual cases and I've changed some details deliberately.

And as a more recent edit, can I also draw attention to this thread on the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which may also be worth considering.

Consumer Rights Act 2015
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Last edited by corporate-wage-slave; Oct 30, 17 at 2:23 pm
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Old Oct 31, 17, 11:00 am
  #1635  
 
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I have a couple of items to post from my travels last year.

The first one is as follows

Scheduled :

Scheduled departure on June 3rd 2016 from London Heathrow on BA119 at 2:25pm BST and arriving at my destination of Bangalore on June 4th 2016 at 4:40am.
In summary June 3rd 2016 2:25pm BST BA 119 LHR - > BLR June 4th at 4:40am

Actual :

Due to technical issues there was take of delays and the plane arrived a the gate in Bangalore at 8:17am with a total delay being 3 hours and 37 minutes.
In summary June 3rd 5:41pm BST BA 119 LHR - > BLR June 4th at 8:17am IST

What is the max amount I can claim for this delay on June 3rd with BA119 ?
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