UKtravelbear

I used this address and they definitly got it when I wrote to them (this was letter before action)

Legal Department
British Airways Plc.
Waterside
PO Box 365
Harmondsworth, UB7 0GB


They are made aware because MCOL send them the paperwork!

corporate-wage-slave

CEDR benefits from being more customer friendly and there seems a customer bias in outcomes too. In other words if it's a 50/50 case they will come done on the side of the passenger. At least one manager in BA thinks it's more like 70/30 (with BA on the 30 side). Unless you have a frivolous case, you are unlikely to pay the Ł25 fee, but it is there.

On the other hand MCOL has a robust process which neither side can buck. If you have a very solid case and you don't want to mess around then it's probably the better of the two. But you do need to feel in the forms carefully and with some rigour. Plus there is a risk of having to turn up in court if BA does defend the case. I guess it's more clinical, perhaps less user friendly.

If you go through CEDR and don't win, then you are still free to go to MCOL. However BA would be within their rights to point this out to the judge, and in extreme cases recover some of their costs if the litigation was patently hopeless.

Your original post was here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28092928-post351.html

and unless there are some key features you haven't mentioned, I would suggest MCOL. Moreover, if you set a deadline and BA didn't meet it, the very next day you should act: you need to stick to reasonable deadlines and hold BA to those deadlines too.

mec72

A "duty of care" query - my flight had a medical emergency en route to North America and landed in Ireland, just to get stuck there for 20 hours (apparently what happened was oxygen onboard needed to be replenished, but since there was none available in SNN, it had to be brought by car from DUB - by the time it arrived, the crew was already out of hours). This was on Westjet - as expected, nothing was proactively offered and they were firm in their view, in subsequent correspondence, that the EU 261 "duty of care" does not apply because of the "extraordinary circumstances". I thought this was plainly wrong, referred this to the CAA but they came back and said that duty of care under EU 261 indeed does not apply to a delay that occurs mid-flight, which they think is unfortunate drafting and probably not what was intended, but the relevant portion of the directive clearly says:

"When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure [...]" [i.e. the delay has to occur at departure]

Would BA reimburse costs of accommodation, taxis etc in a situation like this? Has anyone encountered this issue before? I must say that the CAA were quite convincing when we spoke and their interpretation of EU 261 made sense to me...

Just to be clear - I wasn't seeking the EUR 600 compo - fully understood this was a medical emergency, just wanted to have the cost of the hotel to be reimbursed.

[Mods - I mentioned this issue in the passing in the CWLCY thread as this revived my memories (I abandoned pursuing this claim after the CAA response) - apologies if this is considered cross-posting under FT rules]

corporate-wage-slave

I suspect the CAA thought you were applying for the delay compensation (which forms 99% of their EC261 enquiries) rather than Article 9 Right to Care, which kicks in after 4 hours regardless, and after 5 hours you have the option to return home and get a full refund if your trip is no longer viable. You will note upthread and in the previous years' threads that a number of us do not believe the CAA is an effective enforcement body, so I wouldn't waste your time on that. Personally I don't believe there is any value in contacting them.

If the aircraft was departing from Europe (your precise route isn't clear to me) on a single booking then Article 9 would apply to WestJet too. Assuming they don't have a mediation channel, you would need to look to MCOL or your credit card company (depending on your local legislation) for enforcement.

cjd

Although off topic from BA, I thought I might get some advice with regard to a missed connection a few weeks ago. I posted on the Qatar forum, but thought there may me more expertise and knowledge on the BA forum. On Sunday 5 March, my wife and I were flying Business Class on QR004 from LHR to DOH and then onward to Singapore on Mon 6 March on QR946. Connection time was 2hrs 5 mins in Doha. Flight QR004 was delayed by approx 2.5hours and we missed the connection at Doha. No hotel accommodation was available at Doha Airport hotel and we spent the 6 -7 hours wait in the lounge unable to sleep. The Qatar agent put us on the next flight, QR944, to Singapore, which departed at 08.55hrs, some 7 hours later than the planned flight QR946. We arrived at SIN at 9.30pm instead of 2.45pm.

Qatar ground staff at Heathrow said flight was delayed due to the late arrival of the incoming flight, although I could see the plane on the tarmac for over 3 hours. Crew on the plane said the delay was due to a mechanical fault. As we arrived at our destination some 7 hours late, I thought we were entitled to compensation under EC261 as we arrived at our destination over 4 hours late. I read of a couple of cases on the Qatar forum where Qatar have paid the EC261 compensation for missed connections, albeit with quite a lot of hassle.

Following some correspondence with Qatar Airways with regard to compensation, they have now come back to me with a new story stating the incoming flight from Doha was delayed due to a lightning strike on the flight to London. Is there any way to confirm whether this happened on the incoming flight QR003? Also, is it possible to find out the departure and arrival times of that incoming flight QR003 on 5 March? I know weather related incidents are not covered by EC261, but after several e-mails, I just now wonder whether this story is true. Any help appreciated.

mec72

No, they understood this was only about the "right to care" and not any compo.

It was LGW-YTT. The problem is that WS does not seem to have any subsidiary in the UK so I can't use the MCOL (which was my first thought). I had closed the credit card that I used to book the ticket in question a long time ago, so I think that route is also not viable.

corporate-wage-slave

I had a quick look and I couldn't find anything either. There is a Canadian small claims process, if you happen to be based there for a few months. But it has to be said that is one of the issues about dealing with non European airlines - they aren't subject to the same control as European airlines and so caveat emptor. Next time fly British Airways!

The credit card company, however, is still liable for you under the Consumer Credit Act, even if you are no longer a customer, and assuming you are still within the deadlines. I appreciate it won't be easy getting traction with them as an ex customer.

stuart_f

Lightning strike is not counted as extraordinary circumstances or weather related delays. See Evans v Monarch Airlines http://www.bottonline.co.uk/press-re...htning-strikes

cjd

Thanks for that very useful info Stuart. Much appreciated.

1Aturnleft

http://www.lhr-lgw.co.uk/heathrow-archives-2010.html
You can unzip the relevant date for the info you need to cross reference here.
I always find this a useful site in terms of getting the relevant info in preparing any submissions although (touch wood) I've not needed to for a while now.

http://www.theqatarsource.com/ is also useful to determine aircraft registrations etc to bolster your case. It may also show the delay on the aircraft tracker section.

ScubaRoo

In my experience (Downgrade CW-->WTP on Avios Redemption) CEDR is slow, 5 weeks after downgrade to get BA to issue a deadlock, then 3 weeks back & forth with CEDR/BA after initial submission to a final position for CEDR to then potentially take a further 5 weeks to appoint an adjudicator.

What this tells me is CEDR are very busy at present and its probably quicker and less time consuming to use information from C-W-S and give BA a "Letter before action" and then swiftly follow up with MCOL.

Its no surprise CEDR are busy, if my belief is correct that BA appear to be attempting to interpret the 75% compensation due for a downgrade under EU261/2004 to be only focused on cash bookings and not Avios.

Yes really, read that sentence again, different laws apply for redemption bookings.....?

It'll be very interesting to hear if they ever have to attempt to argue that in a court of law....

ScubaRoo

Of course, if BA are attempting to interpret EU261/2004 this way, I personally interpret this to mean passengers on Avios bookings to potentially have less rights and would be far more favourable and economically attractive to target for a downgrade.....

I'll leave you the reader to do the necessary math..

cjd

Thanks for those links. In the Heathrow archives, could find all the departures, but unfortunately couldn't find the Qatar arrivals for 5 March. Also on the Qatar site, the route tracker worked, but couldn't get the flight tracker to work. Not my day!

Tyzap

QR003 departed DOH at 5.25 UTC. arrived LHR 12.20 UTC.

corporate-wage-slave

Let me welcome you to Flyertalk and to the BA forum. Thank you Tyzap for finding out this information and posting it here, I hope we will see more of you in this forum or elsewhere on this website.