sts603

I think you're grossly overreacting. Comments in CAPS. The idea that BA F is worse than AA, CX, or QR J is just laughable. I often say that QR J and BA F compare well but BA F is always still the winner.

orbitmic

I have long been among those agreeing that while BA F is weak, it is still better than most J products. Very recently, I have had a few experiences that escape this however.

One week from each other, I did BA F on LHR-MIA (morning flight), JFK-LHR (overnight) and QR J to Australia.

The outbound LHR-MIA was appalling. The main meal breakfast was quite frankly disgusting and did not have a single non-breakfast option (unlike daytime JFK-LHR flights), and the second 'meal' was the ghastly afternoon tea. My IFE kept failing on that ageing 744. On the return from JFK, the menu was one of the poorest I've had from JFK in month and the crew was one of the worst I have had on BA. They also chose to ignore status priority for meals ordering and take orders back to front, so despite being GGL-CCR, as I sat in 1K, neither my first nor my second breakfast preferences were available.

On QR, the mattress was slightly better than the BA F one, the food was much better, the Champagne was Comtes de Champagne which is quite a bit better and more prestigious than LGPS (and yes that was in J and the Champagne listed on the menu), the wines at least as good as the BA F ones and the port better. They also have much better orange juice, fixed me a great macchiato, much better than the BA one. Even the individual water bottles were bigger!

All in all, i'd choose those QR J flights over those BA F flights any day, and while this is not the norm to me, it is not a one off case either.

Also, with regards to your question to binman, yes, I personally find it much easier to get spa treatments with QF, EY, or AF (QR is for a fee), and in fact, their treatments are of a much higher quality too. I also do think that the CCR, whilst nice, is weaker than many other airlines F lounges (AF, GA, LH, CX, SQ, in my view QF, etc) and I have had disinterested crew (rarely) and broken IFE (multiple times) as well as dirty planes (more than occasionally).

Finally, I partly disagree on your point on price differential. Now clearly, there are ways to get BA F much cheaper than competitors through awards, GUFs, free upgrade promotions, and sale prices. However, on regular fares, they are actually perfectly aligned with the much better AF, LH, and LX fares. I'd venture the guess that (hopefully for BA at least!) more pax pay the latter price than the former.

NYLON Boy

Maybe so, but not on this occasion.

DFB_london

Very well informed in fact.

Told by an attendee that Cruz was meant to be there but then decided not to turn up.

Seems to suggest he dislikes even his most valuable customers as much as the staff seem to dislike him!

lost_in_translation

I think AC probably has some quite serious performance issues on his plate at the moment (some of his own making), so whilst this doesn't reflect well, I don't necessarily blame him...

daftboy

Interesting comment hemschmall, and I have been in similar corporate environments before where a number of different, potentially incompatible strategic objectives are competing for resource for delivery. I think you have the dynamics of the premium and economy cabins spot on.

lost_in_translation

This.

Some concrete examples:

- I seldom press the call button (other than on CX, where the whole service is designed so that you have privacy until you ask for service). Pressed call button on BA F back from HKG a couple of weeks ago and waited about ten minutes for no one to show up, before getting up and going to the galley (all I wanted was to ask for a bottle of water). Crew were chatting to each other and despite being as polite as possible I didn't get a particularly friendly reception. Have never had this happen in QR J.

- Have never had a QR J where hot towels were just not handed out (other than when I've asked for a cold one, given you usually get the option of hot or cold on QR J!). Have had two BA F flights in the last couple of months where this has happened.

etc, etc.

simons1

So why wasn't he able to attend then?

I honestly doubt it was because he was afraid of a bunch of FT types.

orbitmic

I've no doubt that he would have disliked them even more if he had come as he would hopefully have been give a run for his money!

GGLwannabe

In the last couple of years I have only flown F on BA, QR and EK and while I have found the F staff on QR and EK helpful, efficient, friendly, they did lack just a bit of personal warmth. I do have some sympathy with the view that the some of the BA lounges are getting a bit tired, and possibly I've been lucky not to have travelled in F on one of their very elderly 747s. However overall I have fonder memories of my BA F flights than those on QR and EK and that's why I made the assertion I did. Others may have had a different experience but that's mine. However maybe I need to get out more and sample some of the other F cabins mentioned.

I fly QR J a lot. It is certainly the best business class I have flown on, even when there are last minute aircraft changes and one ends up on a different aircraft to that expected. The seat/bed is comfortable, the food is generally very good (except on morning flights, when I resent having no choice other than breakfast style dishes), the wine list normally offers a claret that is the equal of the offering in many other airlines' First cabins, and bizarrely imho occasionally better than QR themselves serve in First, and there often other standout wines on the list too. The crew are very well trained, but again mostly lacking that personal warmth, that makes an encounter a personal one, rather than a training manual one. All in all, a great product, particularly when bought at sale price, but I wouldn't say it's quite up there with any of the First products I know.

xenole

I used the call button for the first time on a CX F flight last month and it couldn't have been more than 5 seconds before someone was at my seat.

lost_in_translation

Yep, is part of the service mentality on CX (and most other F).

orbitmic

In fairness, whilst indeed staff would answer the call button especially on F on most airlines, on CX and many Asian and Middle Eastern airlines, it really is first and foremost a cultural difference. Passengers think of it as a service button on those whilst typically, on most European/North American airlines, very few passengers culturally tend to use it except in emergencies (I never do myself). Conversely, one doesn't really expect "routine patrols" by staff on CX whilst on many Western airlines you would.

Of course, it doesn't change anything to your point about service attentiveness.

orbitmic

Like you, I tend to dislike breakfast flights. However, to be honest, I find QR breakfasts better than BA even in F, and at least they tend to almost always include an Indian main (usually very good), which I find quite lunchy. The breakfast on my recent LHR-MIA as I mentioned earlier was really ghastly. Choices were English breakfast, tomato omelette, the driest French toast one could think of, a bacon sandwich, or a cold plate similar to the CE 'brunch' one. Not a single dish was decent. I had the full English which seemed the least bad but the scrambled eggs were the industrial carton rubbish, meats were dried/burnt and the whole plate was frankly less pleasing than your average Premier Inn cooked breakfast. The second meal was the ghastly afternoon tea - compulsory dried sandwiches, uninteresting scones, ok miniature pastries. At least, QR J offers a nicer light meals selection even on flights 4 hours shorter including salads, sandwiches, soup, etc.

DrBernardo

Whilst it might be true that we shy and retiring folks are less likely to press the button, the fact that it gets ignored 50% of the time becomes even more serious if it's only being used for emergencies, no?!