ThatT1Feeling

For those of you who have met me, I hope you would think that I am generally level-headed, I quite like BA and I do try very hard not to over-sensationalise (even when I get frustrated with BA which of course does happen!)

Also, with all of the negativity going on on the forum at the moment, I have thought long and hard about creating this post - and I also tried to see whether there was an existing post I could add to.

But here goes.. I was standing on the touchline at my son's rugby club this morning, as I do almost every Sunday morning in the winter. One of the other parents who is a Finance Director in a well-known international business was lamenting how hard it was to spend her Avios on reward flights.

Totally unprompted, 3 of the other parents in the group (one CIO, one European Sales Director and one CCO - all with significant international roles), all asked what could possibly prompt her to want to travel on BA any more, even for redemptions.

They were all previous Gold card holders, one an ex-GGL, who have all left BA completely in the last year or so. The long-haul travellers have moved all of their travel to Gulf-based carriers and / or United, and the European Sales Director now travels exclusively on Easyjet or other LCCs. None of them sees any reason at all to travel BA any more, and about 20 minutes of a negative stream of consciousness about BA just spilled from these successful, logical, educated people, be it the reduction of legroom in CE, the reduction in meal services in CW, the lack of cleanliness on planes, the poor redemption availability, the poor ground experience at LHR and the lack of acceptable follow-up from customer relations.

None of these people are remotely flyertalk-type people but they do know the concept of value and quality of service and they all just had a continuous stream of bottled-up issues which this one single comment about Avios redemptions just seemed to unblock.

I was truly shocked at quite how animated they were in their disdain for BA, all created in the last year or so - the service reductions are clearly not going un-noticed and, once BA wakes up, it will take a long long time to get these kind of people back....

henkybaby

Although I am no big fan of BA at the moment, I would not worry (yet). The load factors seems high enough and I am sure that if there is a US$ per mile flown revenue statistic somewhere, that IAG isn't doing too badly.

There is a topic about the cyclical character of the hospitality and transport industry and I believe that is not too far off. BA is the victim of diminishing returns. They developed a product first and it is still B-ok. There are no grounds to invest heavily in the current product, as it would not generate enough new business or justify higher fares. So, at least for the time being, it is ok if other airlines offer a better product. It is even ok if a % of customers switch sides, that is also why the JVs are so clever.

Now, once IAG has roamed off enough profits, it is possible to innovate the industry again in say 5 years or so. I don't have to like it as a customer (and I don't) but I do understand it.

gypsyjaney

It does indeed sound a a sobering and experience; thanks for sharing. While I take Henkys point, I do agree that When the chickens come home to roost BA will find that losing customers is a lot easier than winning them back again.

BA or bust

I must say that (sadly) I agree.

FrancisA

I am by no means a BA defender, but when I read something so at odds with my own experiences, I feel I must say something. For non-FTers they certainly seem to be aware of/troubled by non-issues much discussed on FT, but of little impact in the real world.

So if you are logical your response to the reduction in CE legroom is to fly U2 or an LCC for same or worse legroom and no J product? Sounds strange logic to me, particularly if you are entitled to SH J travel. Why not fly an airline with J at same sort of price as BA - there are plenty? Reduced meals services in CW makes you route via Dubai to JFK? Really?

Lack of cleanliness? I have heard this one so many times that I actively look for dirty cabins - unless I have significantly different ideas to most people, I would say this is a non-issue. Of course, if you expect showroom clean, you will be disappointed that they lack that never-touched-before freshness.

Poor redemption availability? Based on what comparison: BA previously or other carriers? In my view BA availability is better now than as of 3-5 years ago, but not what it was say 10 years ago. It tends to reflect the economic cycle, although BA does seem to have taken measures that improve availability, such as guaranteed release of seats at 350 days. Oh, and that ignores RFS which makes SH Remptions good value - not something one would have said about the previous cost of SH redemptions. RFS are readily available. One only has to look at any of the other airline fora on FT to see that complaints about reward availablity are common place - gulf carriers are poor in this area.

What exactly is poor about the ground experience at LHR. My normal experience is this: check in (at F desks) fast and efficient with rarely a queue. Security - fast, particularly compared to other major hubs I use regularly (CDG, FRA, AMS, MAD). Lounges - GF and CCR are still way better than most airlines' lounges with some obvious showcase exceptions at home hubs. For a U.K. based passenger, you would struggle to get better until you reach an alternative carrier's home hub. Immigration - was very poor about 18 months ago but seems to have improved with deployment of e-gates. Luggage - has beaten me (usually one of first off plane ) to carousel 9 out of last ten times (on tenth occasion I had a 5 minute wait). Flight connections - can be slow, but my last few have taken about 5-10 minutes from BP check at flight connections to exiting North security.

Lack of follow up from customer relations. I can't comment on this as I have had no reason to contact customer relations in recent years. Ironically previously, say 5 - 10 years ago, I encountered many more issues than I do today - indeed I would expect at least a return CW redemption to JFK in compensatory miles on average per year during those years. That must say something about the supposed decline in BA's service standards.

This conversation sounds to me like dinner party chat where everyone agrees with everyone else, even when there is no basis in fact. I would say looking at BA's present performance, I don't imagine that they have any particular concern about losing this type of customer. Let's look at some facts. Loads are up. Yields are up. BA are adding routes, both LH and SH. Profits are good. This reflects in full cabins and of course lower redemption availability. Some said SH was finished for BA, yet we have seen expansion at LHR, LGW and LCY.

So back to the original post. People change, products change, preferences change. What suits one person may not suit another. Some people will move away from a product through price or personal preferences; others may have to through corporate policies. However, for most products, a brand switch would not start "about 20 minutes of a negative stream of consciousness" - that implies really deep personal feelings about the brand. However, for many people the reasons given to switch are inconsequential and insignificant meaning that this seems a non-sequitur. So to my mind perhaps there is a different dynamic to this conversation than an objective brand appraisal ....

Dan72

I'm not so sure. My colleagues travel a lot and choose BA for its superior schedule for London based travellers. I just don't see that redemption availability or plane cleanliness registers in their decision. Getting home at the right time or as early as possible does.

One thing that stood out in the OPs friends remarks' was their preference for UA. Perhaps they shop on price, as I think UA's product is still the poorest across the pond, by quite a margin. I know that will change with their new product, but that's not rolled out yet.

Ancient Observer

Dan72 makes a fair point. When I was BA and SQ Gold, my chief concern was getting a plane that got me there, and better still, got me home.

All the other stuff, like avios, upgrades, etc was nice, but did not drive my purchase behaviour.

The only real "wow" moment for me was the introduction of flat beds in F and then J.

cjb666

Polaris is live. I don't like fly United but this looks like a leap forward. The competition is stiff both East and West now.

https://thepointsguy.com/2016/11/uni...ge-first-look/

It is worth clicking through some of the links.

ShuttleRunner

Having flown UA Polaris Business twice, and First once now (inc. ORD lounge) in the past couple of days I concur with the above. BA is officially only one step above Norwegian/Icelandair on the transatlantic routes... and that is even without the Polaris hard product.

Like I've said before, put your money where your mouth is. I book purely on schedule, but if I ever have a close choice I know where I'll be heading - East, West or EU.

UKTony

Sounds more like corporate policy avoidance. I work for a French it services provider and top to bottom it is Y fares or PE for longer flights except when a cheaper fare is available either lcc or another non corporate rate agreed airline.

orbitmic

Are you really? While IB and VY are doing better, for BA, the revenue per ASK and the revenue per RPK have both declines by about 5% (5.2% and 4.7% respectively) in 2015 vs 2014. In the meantime, LH's has increased by 2.6%, and AF by 2.8% and 2.3% respectively. That is despite the currency factor being more negative for AF and LH. Total revenue for BA was also down 3.3% and up for the other two.

Load factor was indeed high - 81.5% in 2015 (+0.5) but it declined in premium classes, and to have higher load and lower yield is typically not a good result in the airline industry.

I'm sorry not to be able to link the page as it is a pdf, but you can just google "British Airways Plc Year ended 31 December 2015" and you'll find all that data available publically.

Of course, this is all 2015, at a time of economic boom and well before major Brexit profit warnings.

simons1

Indeed. And in the 9 months to September, IAG's revenue per seat km was down a further 9.8% compared to 2015.

orbitmic

I would personally say that the VS Clubhouse, available for all VS and DL flights in a few weeks is way better than GF and arguably than CCR, let alone GC.

Since the OP's friends mentioned Gulf carriers, I also find the QR T4 lounge better than both GF and the CCR.

That said, I agree that for anyone London-based, it will be hard to beat the schedule density of BA with a global network. For anyone living outside of London however, I disagree with your point on connections. Mine are invariably very poor at LHR compared to other major European (as well as Middle Eastern and Asian) hubs. You are right that connections ex-domestic are fast and smooth, but on the way back it can easily be hell depending on time and luck. For anyone based in, say, MAN, BHX, or GLA, connections at AMS or MUC or even FRA will prove much smoother than at LHR when taking the entire trip (and not just one way) into account.

Raffles

Have you actually seen your global CEO flying Economy?!

No, thought not ..... :-)

gms

No doubt he/she will claim they travel in the lowest class available ... albeit on a private jet.