Cheap and Cheerful and Cheap and Miserable vs. Refined and Professional
Nov 30, 2016, 2:33 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,520
Cheap and Cheerful and Cheap and Miserable vs. Refined and Professional
A couple of points before I go on this ventilating rant (it has been a while since Some people have no manners and Dreadful crew in Club World), but I cannot hold back.
- the MF sample is small. Two long-haul sectors in the last week only. But the misery is 100% and judging from others not unique.
- to my friends working in MF, this isn't meant as a character assassination on the entire MF crew. I know you are great so this thread doesn't apply to you. Likewise, many of those who were Legacy fleet and moved to MF have that old school BA "to fly. to serve" in their blood.
After two premium long-haul sectors in the last week I will now actively avoid mixed fleet routes if in Club or F. It was shockingly poor. The lack of training, experience and finesse was glaringly obvious. How can they put such novices in First? I feel sorry for them. They try their hardest, are all smiles but the short comings are laughable.
Let's do it on the cheap, let's pay them less in a year than what some PAX have paid for their tickets, and pretend they can provide a First class service.
In F to Miami, full cabin 14 seats. The usual 3 crew setup. One ruining food in the galley and two lost souls working one aisle each. Cheerful, willing and probably doing their best. But it was pants.
Pre-departure drink and PJ delivery went well.
Post take off meal order went well. But there was nervousness evident.
Offered drinks, did some tasting of the whites. Decided the Meursault was the winner. Now, after waiting 30 minutes I decided to press the call button.
Nothing happened for another 15 minutes. No crew to be seen.
Eventually crew walked past and I had to call for attention.
Oh, during meal order the steak was discussed. Historically steak on BA is woeful, grey and chewy like a shoe. Not on this airplane I was told. New ovens.
Steak arrived. Poor thing. Cremated is the wrong word as that entails nothing is left. Rather, it was as if had gone through an Exothermic Process.
Like a Diamond turned into Graphite. Completely inedible. The vegetables were of a purée nature. Well done LHR catering and A380 galley team.
After meal service, which took ages to be cleared away, it was unfortunately the same pattern. Zero pro-activeness, no refinement and a lack of timing and touch. Something that comes with experience. As posted earlier, the will and smile was there. But that was about it.
BA mgmt aren't that stupid. There's a reason they don't put MF crew on their VIP routes such as JFK (which I suppose unfortunately for MF is the route I set the BA standard for crew on = generally excellent).
Coming back Sunday in Club.
even the collected Mrs Petrus (she's a grounded, sometimes shy and rarely complaining lady) wanted to tell the crew to go you know where.
Add the above lack of training, missing refinement and so on together with angry, rude I hate my job attitude and you get the MF crew on our sector.
No amenity kit in my seat. Politely asked if one can be found when they have a moment.
Response: a rather rude one "we don't have any left up here, you'll have to wait until after we've prepared the flight for departure and up in the air and they will send up from down stairs". Okay I suppose, no big deal.
That didn't happen. Rather, a rushed cabin service began and the two crew working our side didn't spare their contempt for customers.
One round of "what do you want to drink"
One round of "what do you want to eat"
As I ordered the food, reminded said crew about the bag.
"Oh yeah we'll get that once meal service is done" Not a sorry or any hint of apology for forgetting. Not so much that there was no apology, rather the tone said it all. "I really don't care"
It was now well into an hour after take off and I had fallen asleep, quite deeply.
"YOUR FOOD IS READY"
They couldn't even bother asking Mrs Petrus if they shoud wake me up.
Really? Just put the food aside or have the courtesy to be a little sensitive and nudge instead of shouting and effectively tossing the tray over.
By this time rather fed up, passed on the main (which was good according to the better half) and tried to sleep.
Oh... sleep you say? 53K on the 380 with a careless crew, forget it.
Never that seat again. They slammed, and they slammed. They left the trolley doors open, creating a whiny suction noise which was loud and clear to row 53 and 52.
This kept going on all night! Either they were blissfully unaware or simple didn't care what their actions meant for PAX trying to sleep.
Same story in the morning. Rude and miserable, borderline angry crew.
I waited 40! minutes to try and get a coffee. Yes, was demonstrating a point. Eventually I started pusing the call button every 5 seconds. They simply ignored it or didn't hear it. But the fact that a lit up call light is not observed for that amount of time says a lot about their state of mind.
Eventually I barged in with 40 minutes to go and asked for a coffee. At first this appeared not possible, but then it was arranged. Insta coffee... oh well.
And then we compare this two my last three F sectors since summer between London and New York:
Stellar crew. Professional. Great timing. Refined. Know their wines, their food. Always there when you might need something. Nothing is an issue.
Same goes for the Club and even WT sectors I have done recently.
I came back in WT from JFK once in the summer and CSD greeted me by the door, said she will be back to me as soon as we take off and make sure I get a row of four to myself.
I will write up proper reports on these flights in due time with photos, also a 380 vs 747 F comparison.
Moral of the story:
You get what pay for BA
Pay crew peanuts, train them on the cheap, well there you go.
Maybe I am getting older and grumpy and expect crew to at least have a basic understanding of how to perform a premium service?
Edited to add:
Row 1 on an A319 the morning after an MF crewed CW flight felt like a relief. EF Purser delivered exemplary service, like most of my CE sectors.
And the food was better actually. The cod with mash is not bad.
Quite telling.
- the MF sample is small. Two long-haul sectors in the last week only. But the misery is 100% and judging from others not unique.
- to my friends working in MF, this isn't meant as a character assassination on the entire MF crew. I know you are great so this thread doesn't apply to you. Likewise, many of those who were Legacy fleet and moved to MF have that old school BA "to fly. to serve" in their blood.
After two premium long-haul sectors in the last week I will now actively avoid mixed fleet routes if in Club or F. It was shockingly poor. The lack of training, experience and finesse was glaringly obvious. How can they put such novices in First? I feel sorry for them. They try their hardest, are all smiles but the short comings are laughable.
Let's do it on the cheap, let's pay them less in a year than what some PAX have paid for their tickets, and pretend they can provide a First class service.
In F to Miami, full cabin 14 seats. The usual 3 crew setup. One ruining food in the galley and two lost souls working one aisle each. Cheerful, willing and probably doing their best. But it was pants.
Pre-departure drink and PJ delivery went well.
Post take off meal order went well. But there was nervousness evident.
Offered drinks, did some tasting of the whites. Decided the Meursault was the winner. Now, after waiting 30 minutes I decided to press the call button.
Nothing happened for another 15 minutes. No crew to be seen.
Eventually crew walked past and I had to call for attention.
Oh, during meal order the steak was discussed. Historically steak on BA is woeful, grey and chewy like a shoe. Not on this airplane I was told. New ovens.
Steak arrived. Poor thing. Cremated is the wrong word as that entails nothing is left. Rather, it was as if had gone through an Exothermic Process.
Like a Diamond turned into Graphite. Completely inedible. The vegetables were of a purée nature. Well done LHR catering and A380 galley team.
After meal service, which took ages to be cleared away, it was unfortunately the same pattern. Zero pro-activeness, no refinement and a lack of timing and touch. Something that comes with experience. As posted earlier, the will and smile was there. But that was about it.
BA mgmt aren't that stupid. There's a reason they don't put MF crew on their VIP routes such as JFK (which I suppose unfortunately for MF is the route I set the BA standard for crew on = generally excellent).
Coming back Sunday in Club.
even the collected Mrs Petrus (she's a grounded, sometimes shy and rarely complaining lady) wanted to tell the crew to go you know where.
Add the above lack of training, missing refinement and so on together with angry, rude I hate my job attitude and you get the MF crew on our sector.
No amenity kit in my seat. Politely asked if one can be found when they have a moment.
Response: a rather rude one "we don't have any left up here, you'll have to wait until after we've prepared the flight for departure and up in the air and they will send up from down stairs". Okay I suppose, no big deal.
That didn't happen. Rather, a rushed cabin service began and the two crew working our side didn't spare their contempt for customers.
One round of "what do you want to drink"
One round of "what do you want to eat"
As I ordered the food, reminded said crew about the bag.
"Oh yeah we'll get that once meal service is done" Not a sorry or any hint of apology for forgetting. Not so much that there was no apology, rather the tone said it all. "I really don't care"
It was now well into an hour after take off and I had fallen asleep, quite deeply.
"YOUR FOOD IS READY"
They couldn't even bother asking Mrs Petrus if they shoud wake me up.
Really? Just put the food aside or have the courtesy to be a little sensitive and nudge instead of shouting and effectively tossing the tray over.
By this time rather fed up, passed on the main (which was good according to the better half) and tried to sleep.
Oh... sleep you say? 53K on the 380 with a careless crew, forget it.
Never that seat again. They slammed, and they slammed. They left the trolley doors open, creating a whiny suction noise which was loud and clear to row 53 and 52.
This kept going on all night! Either they were blissfully unaware or simple didn't care what their actions meant for PAX trying to sleep.
Same story in the morning. Rude and miserable, borderline angry crew.
I waited 40! minutes to try and get a coffee. Yes, was demonstrating a point. Eventually I started pusing the call button every 5 seconds. They simply ignored it or didn't hear it. But the fact that a lit up call light is not observed for that amount of time says a lot about their state of mind.
Eventually I barged in with 40 minutes to go and asked for a coffee. At first this appeared not possible, but then it was arranged. Insta coffee... oh well.
And then we compare this two my last three F sectors since summer between London and New York:
Stellar crew. Professional. Great timing. Refined. Know their wines, their food. Always there when you might need something. Nothing is an issue.
Same goes for the Club and even WT sectors I have done recently.
I came back in WT from JFK once in the summer and CSD greeted me by the door, said she will be back to me as soon as we take off and make sure I get a row of four to myself.
I will write up proper reports on these flights in due time with photos, also a 380 vs 747 F comparison.
Moral of the story:
You get what pay for BA
Pay crew peanuts, train them on the cheap, well there you go.
Maybe I am getting older and grumpy and expect crew to at least have a basic understanding of how to perform a premium service?
Edited to add:
Row 1 on an A319 the morning after an MF crewed CW flight felt like a relief. EF Purser delivered exemplary service, like most of my CE sectors.
And the food was better actually. The cod with mash is not bad.
Quite telling.
Nov 30, 2016, 3:03 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
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Posts: 30,510
I can only reiterate that my experience does not match. In this last week again, I flew LHR-MIA and JFK-LHR both in F, and another LHR-MIA and IAD-LHR in J. The two mixed fleet crew were really excellent (despite the F product on the morning LHR-MIA being totally ghastly). Both IAD-LHR and JFK-LHR crew were mediocre though (in fact, it is unusual for me to get two mediocre BA crew at such short interval).
I was particularly underwhelmed by the JFK-LHR in F because that's a route on which for whatever reason I often get great crew. Not this time. Seating in 1K and GGL/CCR, I was notably a bit annoyed that when taking breakfast orders they used a rather odd system of asking people 1 by 1 from back to front of the cabin and serving them then. This meant I was asked what to have last, by which times both what I fancied and my potential plan B were unavailable, so that I only ended up getting some yoghurt, and with much less time than anyone else at that. Admittedly, another of the 3 crew members had already annoyed me the evening before because whilst I skipped dinner, I asked if I could get a chocolate from the box before going to bed, and that original lady answered me that they don't carry chocolate boxes on the short night flights (good one!). Of course the box appeared in the galley a bit later so I got one in the end.
On the IAD-LHR, neither my partner nor myself got a menu (sat in different rows as we booked that trip late and there were no decent J seats together so we elected to pick two windows two rows apart instead since it's a night flight anyway), and I think the crew did not handle very well (or in fact at all) a passenger who insisted on changing seats and was not very pleasant to some other pax around him in the new location, although admittedly I do have very little tolerance for loud and slightly aggressive characters and other people might consider that waiting for things to calm down of their own might be enough).
Again that is notwithstanding the fact that I have had some fabulous WW and EF crew too in recent months, as well as some not very good MF ones, but it is just that I personally do not see the systematic patterns of differences that many suggest here after dozens and dozens of flights.
I was particularly underwhelmed by the JFK-LHR in F because that's a route on which for whatever reason I often get great crew. Not this time. Seating in 1K and GGL/CCR, I was notably a bit annoyed that when taking breakfast orders they used a rather odd system of asking people 1 by 1 from back to front of the cabin and serving them then. This meant I was asked what to have last, by which times both what I fancied and my potential plan B were unavailable, so that I only ended up getting some yoghurt, and with much less time than anyone else at that. Admittedly, another of the 3 crew members had already annoyed me the evening before because whilst I skipped dinner, I asked if I could get a chocolate from the box before going to bed, and that original lady answered me that they don't carry chocolate boxes on the short night flights (good one!). Of course the box appeared in the galley a bit later so I got one in the end.
On the IAD-LHR, neither my partner nor myself got a menu (sat in different rows as we booked that trip late and there were no decent J seats together so we elected to pick two windows two rows apart instead since it's a night flight anyway), and I think the crew did not handle very well (or in fact at all) a passenger who insisted on changing seats and was not very pleasant to some other pax around him in the new location, although admittedly I do have very little tolerance for loud and slightly aggressive characters and other people might consider that waiting for things to calm down of their own might be enough).
Again that is notwithstanding the fact that I have had some fabulous WW and EF crew too in recent months, as well as some not very good MF ones, but it is just that I personally do not see the systematic patterns of differences that many suggest here after dozens and dozens of flights.
Nov 30, 2016, 3:20 pm
#3
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London
Programs: BA LtG, Flying Blue Plat
Posts: 274
Petrus I can 100% vouch for you on the MIA-LHR flight (I'm guessing BA208?), I was a few rows ahead of you, albeit on the other side, and it was not any better let me tell you. I do, however, seem to remember your 'larger than life' loudmouth crew member (I could hear her from the other side of the cabin). It was probably the worst flight in BA Club I have ever had.
Waited 2 hours for food to come out, and after about 40 mins of waiting for them to clear my main, I took the tray to the galley myself and saw that some poor folk still hadn't even been served a main course. The crew member from your side took the tray and gave me the most glaring look and 'humph ok then'. I gave up on even the idea of breakfast. The gent that was serving my side of the cabin, bless him, was incredibly nervous the entire time but was trying his best - he clearly hasn't been trained well, and was imo far too nervous and inexperienced to be serving in a premium cabin.
It was a stark contrast to my flight out in Club on Friday, which was excellent.
Waited 2 hours for food to come out, and after about 40 mins of waiting for them to clear my main, I took the tray to the galley myself and saw that some poor folk still hadn't even been served a main course. The crew member from your side took the tray and gave me the most glaring look and 'humph ok then'. I gave up on even the idea of breakfast. The gent that was serving my side of the cabin, bless him, was incredibly nervous the entire time but was trying his best - he clearly hasn't been trained well, and was imo far too nervous and inexperienced to be serving in a premium cabin.
It was a stark contrast to my flight out in Club on Friday, which was excellent.
Last edited by ShuttleRunner; Nov 30, 2016 at 3:37 pm
Nov 30, 2016, 3:31 pm
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Programs: plenty - ggl, ccr, etc, etc.
Posts: 1,704
A couple of points before I go on this ventilating rant (it has been a while since Some people have no manners and Dreadful crew in Club World), but I cannot hold back.
- the MF sample is small. Two long-haul sectors in the last week only. But the misery is 100% and judging from others not unique.
- to my friends working in MF, this isn't meant as a character assassination on the entire MF crew. I know you are great so this thread doesn't apply to you. Likewise, many of those who were Legacy fleet and moved to MF have that old school BA "to fly. to serve" in their blood.
After two premium long-haul sectors in the last week I will now actively avoid mixed fleet routes if in Club or F. It was shockingly poor. The lack of training, experience and finesse was glaringly obvious. How can they put such novices in First? I feel sorry for them. They try their hardest, are all smiles but the short comings are laughable.
Let's do it on the cheap, let's pay them less in a year than what some PAX have paid for their tickets, and pretend they can provide a First class service.
In F to Miami, full cabin 14 seats. The usual 3 crew setup. One ruining food in the galley and two lost souls working one aisle each. Cheerful, willing and probably doing their best. But it was pants.
Pre-departure drink and PJ delivery went well.
Post take off meal order went well. But there was nervousness evident.
Offered drinks, did some tasting of the whites. Decided the Meursault was the winner. Now, after waiting 30 minutes I decided to press the call button.
Nothing happened for another 15 minutes. No crew to be seen.
Eventually crew walked past and I had to call for attention.
Oh, during meal order the steak was discussed. Historically steak on BA is woeful, grey and chewy like a shoe. Not on this airplane I was told. New ovens.
Steak arrived. Poor thing. Cremated is the wrong word as that entails nothing is left. Rather, it was as if had gone through an Exothermic Process.
Like a Diamond turned into Graphite. Completely inedible. The vegetables were of a purée nature. Well done LHR catering and A380 galley team.
After meal service, which took ages to be cleared away, it was unfortunately the same pattern. Zero pro-activeness, no refinement and a lack of timing and touch. Something that comes with experience. As posted earlier, the will and smile was there. But that was about it.
BA mgmt aren't that stupid. There's a reason they don't put MF crew on their VIP routes such as JFK (which I suppose unfortunately for MF is the route I set the BA standard for crew on = generally excellent).
Coming back Sunday in Club.
even the collected Mrs Petrus (she's a grounded, sometimes shy and rarely complaining lady) wanted to tell the crew to go you know where.
Add the above lack of training, missing refinement and so on together with angry, rude I hate my job attitude and you get the MF crew on our sector.
No amenity kit in my seat. Politely asked if one can be found when they have a moment.
Response: a rather rude one "we don't have any left up here, you'll have to wait until after we've prepared the flight for departure and up in the air and they will send up from down stairs". Okay I suppose, no big deal.
That didn't happen. Rather, a rushed cabin service began and the two crew working our side didn't spare their contempt for customers.
One round of "what do you want to drink"
One round of "what do you want to eat"
As I ordered the food, reminded said crew about the bag.
"Oh yeah we'll get that once meal service is done" Not a sorry or any hint of apology for forgetting. Not so much that there was no apology, rather the tone said it all. "I really don't care"
It was now well into an hour after take off and I had fallen asleep, quite deeply.
"YOUR FOOD IS READY"
They couldn't even bother asking Mrs Petrus if they shoud wake me up.
Really? Just put the food aside or have the courtesy to be a little sensitive and nudge instead of shouting and effectively tossing the tray over.
By this time rather fed up, passed on the main (which was good according to the better half) and tried to sleep.
Oh... sleep you say? 53K on the 380 with a careless crew, forget it.
Never that seat again. They slammed, and they slammed. They left the trolley doors open, creating a whiny suction noise which was loud and clear to row 53 and 52.
This kept going on all night! Either they were blissfully unaware or simple didn't care what their actions meant for PAX trying to sleep.
Same story in the morning. Rude and miserable, borderline angry crew.
I waited 40! minutes to try and get a coffee. Yes, was demonstrating a point. Eventually I started pusing the call button every 5 seconds. They simply ignored it or didn't hear it. But the fact that a lit up call light is not observed for that amount of time says a lot about their state of mind.
Eventually I barged in with 40 minutes to go and asked for a coffee. At first this appeared not possible, but then it was arranged. Insta coffee... oh well.
And then we compare this two my last three F sectors since summer between London and New York:
Stellar crew. Professional. Great timing. Refined. Know their wines, their food. Always there when you might need something. Nothing is an issue.
Same goes for the Club and even WT sectors I have done recently.
I came back in WT from JFK once in the summer and CSD greeted me by the door, said she will be back to me as soon as we take off and make sure I get a row of four to myself.
I will write up proper reports on these flights in due time with photos, also a 380 vs 747 F comparison.
Moral of the story:
You get what pay for BA
Pay crew peanuts, train them on the cheap, well there you go.
Maybe I am getting older and grumpy and expect crew to at least have a basic understanding of how to perform a premium service?
Edited to add:
Row 1 on an A319 the morning after an MF crewed CW flight felt like a relief. EF Purser delivered exemplary service, like most of my CE sectors.
And the food was better actually. The cod with mash is not bad.
Quite telling.
- the MF sample is small. Two long-haul sectors in the last week only. But the misery is 100% and judging from others not unique.
- to my friends working in MF, this isn't meant as a character assassination on the entire MF crew. I know you are great so this thread doesn't apply to you. Likewise, many of those who were Legacy fleet and moved to MF have that old school BA "to fly. to serve" in their blood.
After two premium long-haul sectors in the last week I will now actively avoid mixed fleet routes if in Club or F. It was shockingly poor. The lack of training, experience and finesse was glaringly obvious. How can they put such novices in First? I feel sorry for them. They try their hardest, are all smiles but the short comings are laughable.
Let's do it on the cheap, let's pay them less in a year than what some PAX have paid for their tickets, and pretend they can provide a First class service.
In F to Miami, full cabin 14 seats. The usual 3 crew setup. One ruining food in the galley and two lost souls working one aisle each. Cheerful, willing and probably doing their best. But it was pants.
Pre-departure drink and PJ delivery went well.
Post take off meal order went well. But there was nervousness evident.
Offered drinks, did some tasting of the whites. Decided the Meursault was the winner. Now, after waiting 30 minutes I decided to press the call button.
Nothing happened for another 15 minutes. No crew to be seen.
Eventually crew walked past and I had to call for attention.
Oh, during meal order the steak was discussed. Historically steak on BA is woeful, grey and chewy like a shoe. Not on this airplane I was told. New ovens.
Steak arrived. Poor thing. Cremated is the wrong word as that entails nothing is left. Rather, it was as if had gone through an Exothermic Process.
Like a Diamond turned into Graphite. Completely inedible. The vegetables were of a purée nature. Well done LHR catering and A380 galley team.
After meal service, which took ages to be cleared away, it was unfortunately the same pattern. Zero pro-activeness, no refinement and a lack of timing and touch. Something that comes with experience. As posted earlier, the will and smile was there. But that was about it.
BA mgmt aren't that stupid. There's a reason they don't put MF crew on their VIP routes such as JFK (which I suppose unfortunately for MF is the route I set the BA standard for crew on = generally excellent).
Coming back Sunday in Club.
even the collected Mrs Petrus (she's a grounded, sometimes shy and rarely complaining lady) wanted to tell the crew to go you know where.
Add the above lack of training, missing refinement and so on together with angry, rude I hate my job attitude and you get the MF crew on our sector.
No amenity kit in my seat. Politely asked if one can be found when they have a moment.
Response: a rather rude one "we don't have any left up here, you'll have to wait until after we've prepared the flight for departure and up in the air and they will send up from down stairs". Okay I suppose, no big deal.
That didn't happen. Rather, a rushed cabin service began and the two crew working our side didn't spare their contempt for customers.
One round of "what do you want to drink"
One round of "what do you want to eat"
As I ordered the food, reminded said crew about the bag.
"Oh yeah we'll get that once meal service is done" Not a sorry or any hint of apology for forgetting. Not so much that there was no apology, rather the tone said it all. "I really don't care"
It was now well into an hour after take off and I had fallen asleep, quite deeply.
"YOUR FOOD IS READY"
They couldn't even bother asking Mrs Petrus if they shoud wake me up.
Really? Just put the food aside or have the courtesy to be a little sensitive and nudge instead of shouting and effectively tossing the tray over.
By this time rather fed up, passed on the main (which was good according to the better half) and tried to sleep.
Oh... sleep you say? 53K on the 380 with a careless crew, forget it.
Never that seat again. They slammed, and they slammed. They left the trolley doors open, creating a whiny suction noise which was loud and clear to row 53 and 52.
This kept going on all night! Either they were blissfully unaware or simple didn't care what their actions meant for PAX trying to sleep.
Same story in the morning. Rude and miserable, borderline angry crew.
I waited 40! minutes to try and get a coffee. Yes, was demonstrating a point. Eventually I started pusing the call button every 5 seconds. They simply ignored it or didn't hear it. But the fact that a lit up call light is not observed for that amount of time says a lot about their state of mind.
Eventually I barged in with 40 minutes to go and asked for a coffee. At first this appeared not possible, but then it was arranged. Insta coffee... oh well.
And then we compare this two my last three F sectors since summer between London and New York:
Stellar crew. Professional. Great timing. Refined. Know their wines, their food. Always there when you might need something. Nothing is an issue.
Same goes for the Club and even WT sectors I have done recently.
I came back in WT from JFK once in the summer and CSD greeted me by the door, said she will be back to me as soon as we take off and make sure I get a row of four to myself.
I will write up proper reports on these flights in due time with photos, also a 380 vs 747 F comparison.
Moral of the story:
You get what pay for BA
Pay crew peanuts, train them on the cheap, well there you go.
Maybe I am getting older and grumpy and expect crew to at least have a basic understanding of how to perform a premium service?
Edited to add:
Row 1 on an A319 the morning after an MF crewed CW flight felt like a relief. EF Purser delivered exemplary service, like most of my CE sectors.
And the food was better actually. The cod with mash is not bad.
Quite telling.
When BA supposedly pays Ł12k basic it's no surprise. But don't expect punters to stump up for unpredictable service. There's got to a problem with total lack of training. Who'd have thought BA would do it on the cheap?
A bit like when Avis became a total sham... oh hang on where did the excellent Mr van den Post's replacement come from? Oh yes, the Avis muppet show...
Nov 30, 2016, 3:35 pm
#6
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London
Programs: BA LtG, Flying Blue Plat
Posts: 274
That is not the same as me saying that they were incapable, so please don't take this out of context.
Nov 30, 2016, 4:06 pm
#7
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Diamond), Le Club Accor (Platinum)
Posts: 171
If a crew member can't even manage to deliver a drinks service without taking a lifetime or shaking like a leaf, it doesn't instil great confidence in the passenger that they would be capable in an emergency.
That is not the same as me saying that they were incapable, so please don't take this out of context.
That is not the same as me saying that they were incapable, so please don't take this out of context.
I told them that, leaving aside all of the service failings, the worst aspect was that their nervousness and apparent cluelessness left me wondering how on earth they would react in an emergency. If you obviously didn't listen to/can't remember the bits of training about keeping white wine cool or offering passengers something to drink, why would I think that you've remembered the bits about opening doors, using a fire extinguisher or dealing with smoke in the cabin? Whether they could, in fact, do all of those things is largely irrelevant. It was genuinely unsettling to have the thought running through my mind.
Nov 30, 2016, 4:07 pm
#8
Join Date: Apr 2016
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 157
Sometimes I wonder if the inconsistent service isn't just a question of which crew you have, but also a question of whether they slept the night before -- I read somewhere about MF (or just BA generally?) having a lot less time to get their head down before return flights than they used to.
While I don't appreciate being on the receiving end of bad/snippy service, I do have some sympathy as I too find it incredibly hard to be polite without sleep (not proud of it).
As for the above comment about cabin crew being there for your safety, well yes, but if we only wanted safety we wouldn't spend thousands on premium cabin tickets!
While I don't appreciate being on the receiving end of bad/snippy service, I do have some sympathy as I too find it incredibly hard to be polite without sleep (not proud of it).
As for the above comment about cabin crew being there for your safety, well yes, but if we only wanted safety we wouldn't spend thousands on premium cabin tickets!
Nov 30, 2016, 4:32 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,520
Petrus I can 100% vouch for you on the MIA-LHR flight (I'm guessing BA208?), I was a few rows ahead of you, albeit on the other side, and it was not any better let me tell you. I do, however, seem to remember your 'larger than life' loudmouth crew member (I could hear her from the other side of the cabin). It was probably the worst flight in BA Club I have ever had.
Waited 2 hours for food to come out, and after about 40 mins of waiting for them to clear my main, I took the tray to the galley myself and saw that some poor folk still hadn't even been served a main course. The crew member from your side took the tray and gave me the most glaring look and 'humph ok then'. I gave up on even the idea of breakfast. The gent that was serving my side of the cabin, bless him, was incredibly nervous the entire time but was trying his best - he clearly hasn't been trained well, and was imo far too nervous and inexperienced to be serving in a premium cabin.
It was a stark contrast to my flight out in Club on Friday, which was excellent.
Waited 2 hours for food to come out, and after about 40 mins of waiting for them to clear my main, I took the tray to the galley myself and saw that some poor folk still hadn't even been served a main course. The crew member from your side took the tray and gave me the most glaring look and 'humph ok then'. I gave up on even the idea of breakfast. The gent that was serving my side of the cabin, bless him, was incredibly nervous the entire time but was trying his best - he clearly hasn't been trained well, and was imo far too nervous and inexperienced to be serving in a premium cabin.
It was a stark contrast to my flight out in Club on Friday, which was excellent.
Did your side have the young skinny fella?
Nov 30, 2016, 4:32 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,520
Petrus I can 100% vouch for you on the MIA-LHR flight (I'm guessing BA208?), I was a few rows ahead of you, albeit on the other side, and it was not any better let me tell you. I do, however, seem to remember your 'larger than life' loudmouth crew member (I could hear her from the other side of the cabin). It was probably the worst flight in BA Club I have ever had.
Waited 2 hours for food to come out, and after about 40 mins of waiting for them to clear my main, I took the tray to the galley myself and saw that some poor folk still hadn't even been served a main course. The crew member from your side took the tray and gave me the most glaring look and 'humph ok then'. I gave up on even the idea of breakfast. The gent that was serving my side of the cabin, bless him, was incredibly nervous the entire time but was trying his best - he clearly hasn't been trained well, and was imo far too nervous and inexperienced to be serving in a premium cabin.
It was a stark contrast to my flight out in Club on Friday, which was excellent.
Waited 2 hours for food to come out, and after about 40 mins of waiting for them to clear my main, I took the tray to the galley myself and saw that some poor folk still hadn't even been served a main course. The crew member from your side took the tray and gave me the most glaring look and 'humph ok then'. I gave up on even the idea of breakfast. The gent that was serving my side of the cabin, bless him, was incredibly nervous the entire time but was trying his best - he clearly hasn't been trained well, and was imo far too nervous and inexperienced to be serving in a premium cabin.
It was a stark contrast to my flight out in Club on Friday, which was excellent.
Did your side have the young skinny fella?
And yes, one of ours was indeed larger than life!
Nov 30, 2016, 4:53 pm
#11
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,374
Don't get me wrong im not for this MF is bad milarky as most of my flights are with them and indeed I had a mediocre J crew to JFK in September but on my MF flight from PHL last month the cabin crew member had great pleasure is serving my "kirk" royale (ala Captain Kirk). Heart was in the right place but just not what I expected.
I do know a colleague was on that flight so will ask him what he thought.
Nov 30, 2016, 4:54 pm
#12
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold; Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 3,227
It does sound like a couple of awful flights and it will be interesting to hear what BA have to say.
My take on all of this is that the only thing BA does consistently well is being inconsistent. I certainly don't fly as often as a lot of people on here but it does seem to be luck of the draw whether you experience a stellar flight or one that leaves you a nervous wreck.
In the last 12 - 18 months I have done a fair few flights in WT+ as well as J and F and, in the main, have been happy. LHR - EWR in F on the 787-9 was fantastic and probably the best flight in a long, long time. JFK - LHR in J upstairs on the daytime flight was exceptionally good as well. LHR - LAS in WT+ with a single crewmember looking after the cabin was memorable for the recognition and service above and beyond what you'd expect. In all those cases it was the crew who made the flights so memorable: polite, friendly, funny, attentive, present, knowledgeable, chatty, engaging and so on. Not everyone may want that on a flight but it appeals to me and it's what I like in a crew.
But then you have another LHR - LAS upstairs in J where the cabin is constantly invaded by interlopers, where raucous, loud and rude language permeates the cabin, and where the crew ignore the call bell, don't stop people coming upstairs, and generally do nothing until I have a DYKWIA moment, stomp downstairs and demand to see the CSM. Order was restored after that but the fact that both crew upstairs were newbies with one on her first ever flight was telling.
I don't know whether basic training is being cut back or whether on the job mentoring, supervision, and coaching is lacking. Everyone was new once and everyone has to be allowed to develop as an employee and there has to be a degree of leeway and an acceptance that mistakes will be made or that service may not be as "polished" as one would expect. That said, there's no excuse for being rude or disrespectful and if I was spoken to in that manner I'd be exceptionally upset.
My take on all of this is that the only thing BA does consistently well is being inconsistent. I certainly don't fly as often as a lot of people on here but it does seem to be luck of the draw whether you experience a stellar flight or one that leaves you a nervous wreck.
In the last 12 - 18 months I have done a fair few flights in WT+ as well as J and F and, in the main, have been happy. LHR - EWR in F on the 787-9 was fantastic and probably the best flight in a long, long time. JFK - LHR in J upstairs on the daytime flight was exceptionally good as well. LHR - LAS in WT+ with a single crewmember looking after the cabin was memorable for the recognition and service above and beyond what you'd expect. In all those cases it was the crew who made the flights so memorable: polite, friendly, funny, attentive, present, knowledgeable, chatty, engaging and so on. Not everyone may want that on a flight but it appeals to me and it's what I like in a crew.
But then you have another LHR - LAS upstairs in J where the cabin is constantly invaded by interlopers, where raucous, loud and rude language permeates the cabin, and where the crew ignore the call bell, don't stop people coming upstairs, and generally do nothing until I have a DYKWIA moment, stomp downstairs and demand to see the CSM. Order was restored after that but the fact that both crew upstairs were newbies with one on her first ever flight was telling.
I don't know whether basic training is being cut back or whether on the job mentoring, supervision, and coaching is lacking. Everyone was new once and everyone has to be allowed to develop as an employee and there has to be a degree of leeway and an acceptance that mistakes will be made or that service may not be as "polished" as one would expect. That said, there's no excuse for being rude or disrespectful and if I was spoken to in that manner I'd be exceptionally upset.
Nov 30, 2016, 5:07 pm
#13
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London
Programs: BA LtG, Flying Blue Plat
Posts: 274
It's hard on everyone but fundamentally I think it's a structural issue - people should have to prove themselves before being let loose in a premium cabin. I don't think being young is a valid excuse, because I'm young too - it's maturity that's lacking in some, and direction that's lacking from the more experienced crew. I just wish they'd mix the fleets and be done with it.
Nov 30, 2016, 5:14 pm
#14
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold; FB Silver; SPG; IHG Gold
Posts: 2,981
Sounds absolutely awful. I've had a few underwhelming CW experiences of late so am generally disappointed with the product at present, but nothing like the OP describes. Certainly warrants a complaint.
Nov 30, 2016, 5:44 pm
#15
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London Heathrow
Programs: British Airways Executive Club
Posts: 719
Now that the first week of the ab initio training course has been outsourced to a training agency and the course has been cut down from 41 to 25 days, good luck with that. They'll never merge any Fleets and the high turnover model has been lauded by Alex Cruz in Up to Speed, the BA internal staff magazine.