Dec 13, 2016, 11:12 pm
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Routes to/from LGW*/LCY/STN are NOT affected. Only flights to/from LHR* are potentially affected. If you think you may be affected, post 2714 (click here) may be helpful.
*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.
Current strike period:
Next announced strike period:
Previous strike periods:
Routes affected:
As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).
Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.
Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew
Background Details from BA:
Strike 19th July-1st August
2nd August-16th August
Background Details from Unite:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/
Latest negotiating position:
Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.
Key upcoming dates:
Ballot results for industrial action:
*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.
Current strike period:
- None
Next announced strike period:
Previous strike periods:
- 25th December 2016 from 00:01 for 48 hours. (Strike action was suspended following ACAS discussions and revised offer.)
- 10th & 11th January 2017
- 19th January 2017 for 72 hours until 21st January
- 5th-7th & 9th-11th February 2017
- 17th-20th February 2017
- 22nd-25th February 2017
- 3rd-9th March 2017
- 16th-19th June 2017 (suspended pending further ACAS talks)
- 1st-16th July 2017
- 19th July-1st August 2017
- 2nd-15th August 2017
- 16th-30th August 2017
Routes affected:
As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).
Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.
Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew
Background Details from BA:
Strike 19th July-1st August
2nd August-16th August
Background Details from Unite:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/
Latest negotiating position:
Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.
Key upcoming dates:
- Latest negotiated position (@ 23rd Oct 2017) between BA & Unite to be balloted. Rumoured that the union is recommending acceptance.
Ballot results for industrial action:
- First ballot, November 2016: Yes 79.5%, No 20.5%
- Second ballot, December 2016: Yes 70%, No 30%
- Third ballot, March 2017: Yes 56%, No 44%, turnout 72%
BA 'Mixed Fleet' cabin crew dispute [agreement reached]
Nov 12, 2016, 2:04 pm
#77
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brexile in ADB
Programs: BA, TK, HHonours, Le Club, Best Western Rewards
Posts: 7,067
What a strange thread. BA FTers who are generally well to the right of Thatcher/Gove/Rees-Mogg are suddenly joining the invigorated Corbyn-led socialists and supporting industrial action and cutting executive pay. Thanks goodness for that; Jeremy's message must be getting through much better than I thought!
Nov 12, 2016, 2:07 pm
#78
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,775
As my daughter is MF, it would be hard for me not to support her. However, I really hope this doesn't escalate to any form of industrial action in the short term for two pressing reasons:
1. All employees receive a discretionary bonus in the profit target threshold is triggered. The bonus would be immediately withdrawn from the MF crews if any industrial action was taken (even refusing to sell the M&S sandwiches).
2. We saw from the previous cabin crew strike that staff travel can be immediately withdrawn from anyone who participates in industrial action. Many MF crew rely on staff travel to commute to and from work and, unlike the Worldwide/Euro crews cannot afford full fare tickets on their lowly pay.
I think, given the strength of support from the Flyertalk community, and from the speeches given by Michael Gove before the Brexit vote and subsequently by Theresa May, urging bosses to cease the practise of giving themselves fat bonuses at the expense of low paid workers, the Unite union would be wise urging their members to lobby their local MP's to raise the issue in the House of Commons and put "democracy in action" to the test.
1. All employees receive a discretionary bonus in the profit target threshold is triggered. The bonus would be immediately withdrawn from the MF crews if any industrial action was taken (even refusing to sell the M&S sandwiches).
2. We saw from the previous cabin crew strike that staff travel can be immediately withdrawn from anyone who participates in industrial action. Many MF crew rely on staff travel to commute to and from work and, unlike the Worldwide/Euro crews cannot afford full fare tickets on their lowly pay.
I think, given the strength of support from the Flyertalk community, and from the speeches given by Michael Gove before the Brexit vote and subsequently by Theresa May, urging bosses to cease the practise of giving themselves fat bonuses at the expense of low paid workers, the Unite union would be wise urging their members to lobby their local MP's to raise the issue in the House of Commons and put "democracy in action" to the test.
Nov 12, 2016, 2:18 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
Posts: 19,072
I cannot believe that you think those two "carrots" aren't worth losing, this it about MF getting fair pay for what they have to put up with, you surely know how hard they work for so little?
Nov 12, 2016, 2:32 pm
#81
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London Heathrow
Programs: British Airways Executive Club
Posts: 719
Unfortunately, after no pay rise on the elapsed hourly rate that Mixed Fleet are paid in lieu of allowances and a proposed 6p an hour pay rise which then can't be renegotiated, plus no pay deal for CSM's who have had no pay rise since 2010, regrettably this isn't a deal many are likely to accept.
Nov 12, 2016, 2:33 pm
#82
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London Heathrow
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 173
Firstly thanks to those customers who are voicing their support for potential action from MF cabin crew and indeed thanks to those colleagues from other fleets who support this action. Whilst it is by no means confirmed any action will take place, the general feeling among the crew on MF is that of utter disdain for management who are unwilling to recognise the fact the wages paid do not reflect market rate, and do not reflect current rising costs in living.
Coincidentally the figures quoted in the media are those stated by BA in terms of wages paid. They also include so called averages of flight pay - very few crew actually achieve this figure, so the reality is a lot different.
If the airline was in dire straits financially, things would be a lot different, but the fact we are generating record profits, working harder and management getting increasingly large salary increases really does stick in our throats (no pay rise at all in 6 years). Also the IAG presentation is more or less stating that we are saving them money, hence their enthusiasm at increasing MF numbers. Surely by saving them millions, we deserve a pay rise which is fair on both sides?
The issue of tired crew is separate to the money fight. We will always work more intense schedules than our colleagues, they have over years gained a scheduling agreement. We, on MF do not have this, therefore the company are using EASA regulations as regular rostering practises. A 4 day SCL trip in itself is tiring but dare I say not completely horrific. What is, is the fact many crew will work the 3 days preceding this trip, quite often on a batch of short haul duties which more often than not are 11 or so hours in length. These could be early starts or late finishes. To then traverse across to SCL missing 2 out 3 nights in bed on duties well over 15 hours in length is what makes the crew dangerously tired. No other airline within Europe does this type of arduous flying for its cabin crews (this does not include ME carriers, I know they work extremely hard without even EASA style regulations to minimise the prospect of fatigue).
Now I do have to say, that as a set of crew (MF, WW, EF & LGW) we generally love the job, thoroughly enjoy interacting with our customers and aim to ensure our customers have an enjoyable experience despite the "enhancements" (which yes do make us embarrassed at times). It is sad that there is a potential to disrupt our customers but after countless negotiations and lack of any recognition from the company, we are left with very little choice but to ballot members to gauge reaction and the next step.
Regards
D1L
Coincidentally the figures quoted in the media are those stated by BA in terms of wages paid. They also include so called averages of flight pay - very few crew actually achieve this figure, so the reality is a lot different.
If the airline was in dire straits financially, things would be a lot different, but the fact we are generating record profits, working harder and management getting increasingly large salary increases really does stick in our throats (no pay rise at all in 6 years). Also the IAG presentation is more or less stating that we are saving them money, hence their enthusiasm at increasing MF numbers. Surely by saving them millions, we deserve a pay rise which is fair on both sides?
The issue of tired crew is separate to the money fight. We will always work more intense schedules than our colleagues, they have over years gained a scheduling agreement. We, on MF do not have this, therefore the company are using EASA regulations as regular rostering practises. A 4 day SCL trip in itself is tiring but dare I say not completely horrific. What is, is the fact many crew will work the 3 days preceding this trip, quite often on a batch of short haul duties which more often than not are 11 or so hours in length. These could be early starts or late finishes. To then traverse across to SCL missing 2 out 3 nights in bed on duties well over 15 hours in length is what makes the crew dangerously tired. No other airline within Europe does this type of arduous flying for its cabin crews (this does not include ME carriers, I know they work extremely hard without even EASA style regulations to minimise the prospect of fatigue).
Now I do have to say, that as a set of crew (MF, WW, EF & LGW) we generally love the job, thoroughly enjoy interacting with our customers and aim to ensure our customers have an enjoyable experience despite the "enhancements" (which yes do make us embarrassed at times). It is sad that there is a potential to disrupt our customers but after countless negotiations and lack of any recognition from the company, we are left with very little choice but to ballot members to gauge reaction and the next step.
Regards
D1L
Nov 12, 2016, 2:44 pm
#84
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 498
Firstly thanks to those customers who are voicing their support for potential action from MF cabin crew and indeed thanks to those colleagues from other fleets who support this action. Whilst it is by no means confirmed any action will take place, the general feeling among the crew on MF is that of utter disdain for management who are unwilling to recognise the fact the wages paid do not reflect market rate, and do not reflect current rising costs in living.
Coincidentally the figures quoted in the media are those stated by BA in terms of wages paid. They also include so called averages of flight pay - very few crew actually achieve this figure, so the reality is a lot different.
If the airline was in dire straits financially, things would be a lot different, but the fact we are generating record profits, working harder and management getting increasingly large salary increases really does stick in our throats (no pay rise at all in 6 years). Also the IAG presentation is more or less stating that we are saving them money, hence their enthusiasm at increasing MF numbers. Surely by saving them millions, we deserve a pay rise which is fair on both sides?
The issue of tired crew is separate to the money fight. We will always work more intense schedules than our colleagues, they have over years gained a scheduling agreement. We, on MF do not have this, therefore the company are using EASA regulations as regular rostering practises. A 4 day SCL trip in itself is tiring but dare I say not completely horrific. What is, is the fact many crew will work the 3 days preceding this trip, quite often on a batch of short haul duties which more often than not are 11 or so hours in length. These could be early starts or late finishes. To then traverse across to SCL missing 2 out 3 nights in bed on duties well over 15 hours in length is what makes the crew dangerously tired. No other airline within Europe does this type of arduous flying for its cabin crews (this does not include ME carriers, I know they work extremely hard without even EASA style regulations to minimise the prospect of fatigue).
Now I do have to say, that as a set of crew (MF, WW, EF & LGW) we generally love the job, thoroughly enjoy interacting with our customers and aim to ensure our customers have an enjoyable experience despite the "enhancements" (which yes do make us embarrassed at times). It is sad that there is a potential to disrupt our customers but after countless negotiations and lack of any recognition from the company, we are left with very little choice but to ballot members to gauge reaction and the next step.
Regards
D1L
Coincidentally the figures quoted in the media are those stated by BA in terms of wages paid. They also include so called averages of flight pay - very few crew actually achieve this figure, so the reality is a lot different.
If the airline was in dire straits financially, things would be a lot different, but the fact we are generating record profits, working harder and management getting increasingly large salary increases really does stick in our throats (no pay rise at all in 6 years). Also the IAG presentation is more or less stating that we are saving them money, hence their enthusiasm at increasing MF numbers. Surely by saving them millions, we deserve a pay rise which is fair on both sides?
The issue of tired crew is separate to the money fight. We will always work more intense schedules than our colleagues, they have over years gained a scheduling agreement. We, on MF do not have this, therefore the company are using EASA regulations as regular rostering practises. A 4 day SCL trip in itself is tiring but dare I say not completely horrific. What is, is the fact many crew will work the 3 days preceding this trip, quite often on a batch of short haul duties which more often than not are 11 or so hours in length. These could be early starts or late finishes. To then traverse across to SCL missing 2 out 3 nights in bed on duties well over 15 hours in length is what makes the crew dangerously tired. No other airline within Europe does this type of arduous flying for its cabin crews (this does not include ME carriers, I know they work extremely hard without even EASA style regulations to minimise the prospect of fatigue).
Now I do have to say, that as a set of crew (MF, WW, EF & LGW) we generally love the job, thoroughly enjoy interacting with our customers and aim to ensure our customers have an enjoyable experience despite the "enhancements" (which yes do make us embarrassed at times). It is sad that there is a potential to disrupt our customers but after countless negotiations and lack of any recognition from the company, we are left with very little choice but to ballot members to gauge reaction and the next step.
Regards
D1L
Nov 12, 2016, 2:52 pm
#85
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London Heathrow
Programs: British Airways Executive Club
Posts: 719
It's a responsible job and you deserve better pay. BA is still a good airline to fly on. It's just difficult get a job and then demand more once your there knowing what the pay and conditions were going to be. I know people on MF and on a good month take home Ł1700. Not bad really I've earn less and survived paying the mortgage etc with higher interest rates years ago..... But hard work and good customer service does deserve an uplift really each year however small.
Nov 12, 2016, 3:12 pm
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
Posts: 19,072
Nov 12, 2016, 3:15 pm
#87
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,227
Good luck to MF and all the frontline staff at BA. I'm due to fly first week of Jan so will no doubt be impacted but I do support this action - management have well and truly brought this on themselves. Something needs to change at BA senior level.
Nov 12, 2016, 3:19 pm
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Home: East Mids UK - Work (Base): Accra, Ghana.
Programs: BAEC: Silver - Marriott: Titanium
Posts: 12,086
It is putrid at the top, absolutely putrid.
Nov 12, 2016, 3:28 pm
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 23,418
Then, a much less healthy BA, a much tougher economic climate and labour costs that relatively high. Now the corporate and economic situation has changed a great deal and there is a large cadre of people being paid way under expectations and at a level barely possible to exist.