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-   -   Club Europe to be introduced on UK domestic flights [launches 01 April 2017] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1800457-club-europe-introduced-uk-domestic-flights-launches-01-april-2017-a.html)

gms Nov 5, 16 6:18 am


Originally Posted by simons1 (Post 27439653)
In theory it makes sense. In practice I wonder if it really will be 80TP. 8 CE returns to Manchester = silver - that might not be what BA is trying to achieve in terms in lounge usage etc.

I keep seeing people speculating that it won't be 80TP for CE on domestic routes for various reasons. So you suggest that BA will not want people to earn status buying CE fares on domestic routes, even though they are quite happy for people to earn status buying the sames fares on shorter routes to JER, CDG, AMS, etc. :confused:

simons1 Nov 5, 16 6:48 am


Originally Posted by gms (Post 27439761)
I keep seeing people speculating that it won't be 80TP for CE on domestic routes for various reasons. So you suggest that BA will not want people to earn status buying CE fares on domestic routes, even though they are quite happy for people to earn status buying the sames fares on shorter routes to JER, CDG, AMS, etc. :confused:

Yes. Or that there will be some other tweaking of TPs on shorter routes nearer the time.

edi-traveller Nov 5, 16 7:00 am

I wonder whether full fare Economy will still be classed as Business UK?

Unless they intend for there to be lots of rows of CE on Domestic (with the consequent reduction in capacity of losing the middle seat) that's a lot of people losing lounge access who previously flew on full fare Economy.

Many companies won't pay for a true business class in the UK and Biz UK was a good way to con the accounts department into paying a business class amount for an economy seat.

When BMI had business class the full fare J and full fare Y fares were the same - only the tax made the difference.

So BA could do the same. Full fare CE and Full Fare Y same price - Full Fare Y gets lounge access but BOB?

FrancisA Nov 5, 16 8:18 am


Originally Posted by simons1 (Post 27439823)
Yes. Or that there will be some other tweaking of TPs on shorter routes nearer the time.

But if you do that, you significantly devalue Club Europe and make the product very inconsistent.

At present all CE flights offer lounge access, checked luggage, 2x2 seating, full food and beverage service. They also all offer double the full economy entitlement to TPs and 50% avios cabin bonus.

What you are suggesting would lead to an inconsistent product. Previously band 4 and over 1200 mile flights were different due to more substantial catering and double TPs. But the same was true of Y. With the move to BoB catering, Band 4 CE catering is pretty much Band 3 with a menu. TP earning remains the same. In other words BA has acted to ensure that the CE différence to ET remains consistent.

My final point would be why would BA introduce reduced TPs for DOM (and band 1)? I am sure there are some who believe BA are changing things just to punish or inconvenience their passengers. Others (me included) see BA are making sensible changes based on rational decision-making which will not adversely affect the attractiveness of their products. Current financial results seem to bear that out.

Why then introduce full CE? Because after introduction of BOB, the DOM offer will be unattractive as a connecting flight or to a well-healed market that will pay a premium for short distance business class flights. Why mess with that? I can get JER return for £200 and earn 80TPs. MAN is going to be about the same I guess. Why not make the TPs the same. Only ardent FTers fly to places they don't need to and if additional TPs encourage an upsell to CE, BA would welcome that.

The lounge problem was more about overly generous discounted Y earning, not CE. Why do you think all CE flights continue to earn the same regardless of fare bucket?

xenole Nov 5, 16 9:53 am

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how would CE work on a domestic?

120 people on a morning EDI-LHR flight won't get on the plane if there's a good % wanting CE.

Only for those with specific connections?

Skipcool3 Nov 5, 16 9:55 am

Well there will be 12 extra seats at least.....

gms Nov 5, 16 10:04 am


Originally Posted by simons1 (Post 27439823)
Yes. Or that there will be some other tweaking of TPs on shorter routes nearer the time.

OK. But you still haven't explained your logic as to why BA would do this now, given that they have operated other shorter routes for many years without any question of varying TPs for those routes.

simons1 Nov 5, 16 10:08 am


Originally Posted by gms (Post 27440415)
OK. But you still haven't explained your logic as to why BA would do this now, given that they have operated other shorter routes for many years without any question of varying TPs for those routes.

Because its a logical time - it wouldn't be hard to introduce a new tier of TPs for CE domestic flights.

Still at this stage it is all speculation really.

gms Nov 5, 16 10:09 am


Originally Posted by edi-traveller (Post 27439852)
I wonder whether full fare Economy will still be classed as Business UK?

Extremely unlikely in my opinion. It would be inconsistent with the wider product offering (i.e. routes with J & Y cabins). Business UK was only offered since it was a single cabin product. So it will be the same as other routes - Club Europe gets lounge access irrespective of status, Y tickets will only get lounge access based on pax status. Why should it be any different?

Peter M Nov 5, 16 10:11 am

New BA becomes more like old BMI (BMI introduced BoB, domestic Business seats :) )

Instead of copying the service standards of defunct airlines: Customers would probably prefer BA to emulate TK (Turkish Business Class), ER (Emirates First Suites), QR (Facilities and Al Mourjan Lounge) or even VS (Virgin Atlantic amenities). :)

corporate-wage-slave Nov 5, 16 10:14 am


Originally Posted by xenole (Post 27440391)
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how would CE work on a domestic?

120 people on a morning EDI-LHR flight won't get on the plane if there's a good % wanting CE.

Only for those with specific connections?

I can't see how you get 120 passengers. If there were 12 rows of CE on EDI-LHR (in which case Señor Cruz will be reading up on the Urban Dictionary) then there would be 48 passengers, with 24 empty seats. Even on a 767 there won't be scope for much more, and it has a different seating logic anyway, the maximum blocked seats there is 15. Now on BA's other routes this works well, both CE and ET seat prices will go up to reap the benefit of constrained supply.

What actually will happen is that on peak services then DUT will be upgrading some ET passengers so that the ET cabin will be filled up - just as happens now elsewhere in Europe.

swiss_global Nov 5, 16 10:45 am

I would expect they do the same as for domestic routes on peninsular Spain operated by IB, where Business Class earns 20TP. However, this would also mean that Eco earnings will be cut by half (10TP for flex i.e. YBH, 5TP for the other fare classes).

Calchas Nov 5, 16 11:04 am


Originally Posted by xenole (Post 27440391)
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how would CE work on a domestic?

I would presume exactly the same way it works everywhere else. Blocked middle seat, a curtain, some sort of meal, and free drinks. Open to anyone who wants to pay for it, and those connecting to longhaul J and F.

The reason I presume this is that they called it "Club Europe". If they were proposing to offer a different service to the rest of the CE routes, my view is that it would have been announced differently, like "improvements to Business UK" or "Club UK".

If there is a fall in passenger capacity that is acceptable if the average fare paid rises. And with discount CE fares being above discount Y fares that's fine.


Originally Posted by FrancisA (Post 27440060)
My final point would be why would BA introduce reduced TPs for DOM (and band 1)?

I agree with your argument in general. The only reason I would expect fewer tier points is that within continental Spain and on business UK the tier points are already 50% of normal. So there is no inconsistency in extending that approach. But tier points are cheap to give away so there is no skin of BA's back to give out some points.

sts603 Nov 5, 16 11:08 am


Originally Posted by xenole (Post 27440391)
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how would CE work on a domestic?

120 people on a morning EDI-LHR flight won't get on the plane if there's a good % wanting CE.

Only for those with specific connections?

They will reduce available seats in the lowest fare buckets until supply equals demand. Its simple revenue management.

corporate-wage-slave Nov 5, 16 11:15 am


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 27440589)
I agree with your argument in general. The only reason I would expect fewer tier points is that within continental Spain and on business UK the tier points are already 50% of normal. So there is no inconsistency in extending that approach. But tier points are cheap to give away so there is no skin of BA's back to give out some points.

Well there is an inconsistency anyway, since JER, which is and will be just about the shortest CE route, is currently on 40 TPs. But 20 TPs would seem a reasonable approach to me. If it's 40 TPs then that falls well into the "too good to be true" category, I'd be getting 240 TPs on trips like NCL-ATH return. That said, for quite a while IB codeshares on BA domestics could get 40 TPs


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