FlyingScientist

Do we have a user realDonaldTrump?

Tobias-UK

FlyingScientist

I thought that the answer in this forum would be Qatar Airways.

FlyingScientist

Have they teamed up with Heathrow Airport who regularly seem taken by surprise that planes are landing there?

Flip42

NickB

I do not think that this is factually correct but, frankly, this kind of comparison is a bit of a non sequitur anyway. The reasons why some airlines do better than others are related to many factors, onboard catering being only one among many others and extremely unlikely to be one of the most significant. You would need a far more complex analysis than just laying side by side differences in financial results and differences in catering to even begin to build a credible argument.

orbitmic

I'm not really sure what the difference is? People were mentioning onboard F&B and you said "yes, but at least on BA you get F&B in lounge" (also note that for AA it is only before domestic flights that this is not possible for AA Plats and EXP, so one needs to extrapolate that this would apply to all of BA's European network rather than domestic to make a significant difference) and I'm saying yes but if you want to extend the comparison to potential F&B in lounge differences, then it makes sense to also add the potential F&B onboard through upgrades.

And indeed, on AA, space available upgrades are only a potential and not a certainty. As you point out on premium heavy routes (Transcon, Hawaii, etc) only a tiny portion of AA status holders will get their upgrade. By contrast, to be honest, some regional/short haul and offpeak links get very short upgrade lists.

My personal sense (from the start) has been that comparisons with AA are entirely irrelevant anyway as this is an entirely different market. In my view, the logical scope of comparison is primarily AF and LH (and to a lesser extent the likes of LX, AZ, TK, SK, AY, OS, etc) for competition on the long haul connecting market in Y and W (which I personally believe to be the main 'risk' associated with BA's policy) and U2 and all European competitors on individual short haul routes (which I personally feel is less of a risk for BA).

Tobias-UK

I agree, but I am responding to posts that keep making that comparison. I find the constant comparisons between airlines rather boring, especially when that comparison is made with an axe to grind.

Even accepting your example vis-à-vis an AA upgrade, on many short flights First Class catering makes Club Europe short band catering look generous! I’ve done 12 flights between LAS/LAX/PHX in the last 8 weeks, all I get on those flights is a drink and a pack of popcorn, crisps or trail mix - and those flights are typically 50-65 minutes flying time.

I don’t care about BA’s competitors or how much profit it makes or even what its yields are, all I care about is the product. I hated BoB when it was introduced, but CE was introduced on domestics and I am now a very happy chap with the new offering.

flashware

Plus QR don't do short haul (regularly anyway ).

bisonrav

Plus QR are subsidised by the state.

miamiflyer8

With the implementation of "Apple Pay Cash" for iPhone users on iOS 11.2 in the US, could this work onboard? What about Visa Electron cards in Apple Pay (before anyone says Visa Electron isn't compatible with Apple Pay, it is in many places in Europe but not the UK)?

orbitmic

corporate-wage-slave

I think any Apple source is all OK for BA BoB, Android remains a no-go however. There are very few Apple Pay payments onboard, contactless is the most popular usage, followed by PIN. The non acceptance of cash, from what I've seen, is partly to do with some non UK travellers on some routes, since other airlines take cash; but the bigger factor seems to be that passengers often have some pound coins or a note readily available in their pocket, whereas their credit card may be buried in the overhead locker and they are sat in a window seat. Or their bag is in the hold...... But most customers seem OK to use Visa or Mastercard, I don't see many AMEX cards being used.

corporate-wage-slave

The interaction piece is indeed the aspect that has changed the dynamic between crew and passengers for the worse. It has sharply reduced the "welcome to British Airways" message, I think headingwest pointed out over a year ago that the customer service is now limited to getting on and off the aircraft, there is no "we are pleased to see you here" while actually flying, so passengers don't feel particularly valued, or not valued for that matter.

It's difficult to tell from just the short snatches of the the CEO's comments, I presume he said more than this, but there is a defensiveness that comes across in them perhaps reflecting the changed customer relations dynamic - if it had no downsides then the message would be something like "and we are going to building on this rip roaring success by adding new items, allowing pre-ordering, pre-payment, and other ways to extract more money from our lovely customers" rather than veiled hints to LH and AF. And those two airlines are what competition means to BA, not Aegean, TK, AA or Finnair.

orbitmic

Totally agree - the second part is exactly what I was trying to get at, it sounds like there is a bit of a "don't leave me alone" undertone to Cruz's message. And fully agree on the first part too. Sometimes as a GGL/CCR, it makes me feel as though many crew members are now worried about coming for the "hello, it's nice to have you here, if there is anything we can do please don't hesitate to say" bit they used to routinely do before for fear that one might actually answer: "oh I'd love a cup of tea" which they are not supposed to hand out for free. As a result, they politely/smilingly ignore you which is fine, but then those few minutes of chit chat do tend to have a strong impact on loyalty in my view and that is now 'lost advertising' (to a captive audience no less!) for the airline.

And that is not to even mention cases of travel incidents (long delays, missed connections, etc) when those few minutes a gifted SCCM might have to show you warmth and empathy. Just imagine - you are tired, angry at the world (and at the airline) and till recently the face of the airline had a chance to come and tell you that they were on your side and that you mattered. That did more to salvage some loyalty than thousands of avios of compensation, and it sorted the problem much earlier thereby preventing you from thinking about it over and again for hours and hours!! Now instead, they shy away discreetly for fear of that traumatic possible request for a glass of sparkling water which they would not know how to politely answer and the instant incident recovery is lost. I'm sure Cruz will tell me that this is anecdotal, but I don't think it is. I think it is the 'psychological effect' of BoB, and as for many other laws, psychological effects are often stronger and more noteworthy than their more obvious mechanical equivalents.

In short, before BoB, I'd say I had SCCM coming to say hello and speak for a few minute on at least 80% of my ET flights, now it is well below 10%. It is not about feeling important or anything, just that a few minutes of chatting made a flight more pleasant for passengers, and quite conceivably for crew.