Last edit by: Aus_Mal
This thread is for opinions on the concept of Buy on Board, concerned with the rights or wrongs of the decision to introduce it.
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
There is a separate thread for experiences, anecdotes, reactions and related comments, which is to be found here:
Buy on board: Experiences and reactions from BA's shorthaul economy services
Useful sub-links
chongcao posted a comparison of other oneworld airlines' BOB prices
Not happy about these changes?
If you have an existing booking, you may be able to complain and get 1000 Avios or cancel for free until 28 days before departure. BA's complaint form.
However, in November 2016, phone calls to BA indicated that "no refunds would be given as food & drinks were complimentary and not part of the T&C."
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
There is a separate thread for experiences, anecdotes, reactions and related comments, which is to be found here:
Buy on board: Experiences and reactions from BA's shorthaul economy services
Useful sub-links
chongcao posted a comparison of other oneworld airlines' BOB prices
Not happy about these changes?
If you have an existing booking, you may be able to complain and get 1000 Avios or cancel for free until 28 days before departure. BA's complaint form.
However, in November 2016, phone calls to BA indicated that "no refunds would be given as food & drinks were complimentary and not part of the T&C."
Buy on board: Implemented on BA short haul - opinions on the concept
#3722
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,913
People here are accusing BA of being stingy whilst applauding AA for being generous. Well, that’s not what I’d call generous - give me the lounge on the ground over a free drink and a packet of crisps in the air.
#3724
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,222
#3726
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,361
I do not think that this is factually correct but, frankly, this kind of comparison is a bit of a non sequitur anyway. The reasons why some airlines do better than others are related to many factors, onboard catering being only one among many others and extremely unlikely to be one of the most significant. You would need a far more complex analysis than just laying side by side differences in financial results and differences in catering to even begin to build a credible argument.
#3727
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,499
Yes, for the lucky few with the highest CIV who can get the upgrade. It’s not unusual to see the upgrade list with 16-20 names on it. But I thought we were discussing the F&B rather than upgrades. Even for those lucky enough to get an upgrade, there’s no lounge for them unless they’ve forked out hundreds of dollars for some sort of membership/credit card.
And indeed, on AA, space available upgrades are only a potential and not a certainty. As you point out on premium heavy routes (Transcon, Hawaii, etc) only a tiny portion of AA status holders will get their upgrade. By contrast, to be honest, some regional/short haul and offpeak links get very short upgrade lists.
My personal sense (from the start) has been that comparisons with AA are entirely irrelevant anyway as this is an entirely different market. In my view, the logical scope of comparison is primarily AF and LH (and to a lesser extent the likes of LX, AZ, TK, SK, AY, OS, etc) for competition on the long haul connecting market in Y and W (which I personally believe to be the main 'risk' associated with BA's policy) and U2 and all European competitors on individual short haul routes (which I personally feel is less of a risk for BA).
#3728
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,913
Even accepting your example vis-à-vis an AA upgrade, on many short flights First Class catering makes Club Europe short band catering look generous! I’ve done 12 flights between LAS/LAX/PHX in the last 8 weeks, all I get on those flights is a drink and a pack of popcorn, crisps or trail mix - and those flights are typically 50-65 minutes flying time.
I don’t care about BA’s competitors or how much profit it makes or even what its yields are, all I care about is the product. I hated BoB when it was introduced, but CE was introduced on domestics and I am now a very happy chap with the new offering.
#3730
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,573
Plus QR are subsidised by the state.
#3731
Join Date: May 2015
Location: ATL/MCO
Programs: Costco Executive, RaceTrac Sultan of Soda, Chick-fil-A Red
Posts: 5,660
With the implementation of "Apple Pay Cash" for iPhone users on iOS 11.2 in the US, could this work onboard? What about Visa Electron cards in Apple Pay (before anyone says Visa Electron isn't compatible with Apple Pay, it is in many places in Europe but not the UK)?
#3732
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,499
I still do! Even more because of the way it has changed the interaction between crew and passengers than in terms of actual lack of catering (I’d personally prefer no service at all or just free water/tea/coffee than that thing).
As for CE, I’m not interested in buying CE on o/d flights myself and even if I were, CE catering has very badly deteriorated on my main route (former band 3 now medium) where I find it wholly inadequate.
In my case comparison makes sense in the sense that it’s precisely because others’ offer is better that I have switched a significant part of my flights but by that I mean comparison with the alternatives I actually have (both on o/d and connecting) and not comparison with AA which flies entirely different routes.
As for CE, I’m not interested in buying CE on o/d flights myself and even if I were, CE catering has very badly deteriorated on my main route (former band 3 now medium) where I find it wholly inadequate.
In my case comparison makes sense in the sense that it’s precisely because others’ offer is better that I have switched a significant part of my flights but by that I mean comparison with the alternatives I actually have (both on o/d and connecting) and not comparison with AA which flies entirely different routes.
#3733
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,716
With the implementation of "Apple Pay Cash" for iPhone users on iOS 11.2 in the US, could this work onboard? What about Visa Electron cards in Apple Pay (before anyone says Visa Electron isn't compatible with Apple Pay, it is in many places in Europe but not the UK)?
#3734
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,716
It's difficult to tell from just the short snatches of the the CEO's comments, I presume he said more than this, but there is a defensiveness that comes across in them perhaps reflecting the changed customer relations dynamic - if it had no downsides then the message would be something like "and we are going to building on this rip roaring success by adding new items, allowing pre-ordering, pre-payment, and other ways to extract more money from our lovely customers" rather than veiled hints to LH and AF. And those two airlines are what competition means to BA, not Aegean, TK, AA or Finnair.
#3735
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,499
The interaction piece is indeed the aspect that has changed the dynamic between crew and passengers for the worse. It has sharply reduced the "welcome to British Airways" message, I think headingwest pointed out over a year ago that the customer service is now limited to getting on and off the aircraft, there is no "we are pleased to see you here" while actually flying, so passengers don't feel particularly valued, or not valued for that matter.
It's difficult to tell from just the short snatches of the the CEO's comments, I presume he said more than this, but there is a defensiveness that comes across in them perhaps reflecting the changed customer relations dynamic - if it had no downsides then the message would be something like "and we are going to building on this rip roaring success by adding new items, allowing pre-ordering, pre-payment, and other ways to extract more money from our lovely customers" rather than veiled hints to LH and AF. And those two airlines are what competition means to BA, not Aegean, TK, AA or Finnair.
It's difficult to tell from just the short snatches of the the CEO's comments, I presume he said more than this, but there is a defensiveness that comes across in them perhaps reflecting the changed customer relations dynamic - if it had no downsides then the message would be something like "and we are going to building on this rip roaring success by adding new items, allowing pre-ordering, pre-payment, and other ways to extract more money from our lovely customers" rather than veiled hints to LH and AF. And those two airlines are what competition means to BA, not Aegean, TK, AA or Finnair.
And that is not to even mention cases of travel incidents (long delays, missed connections, etc) when those few minutes a gifted SCCM might have to show you warmth and empathy. Just imagine - you are tired, angry at the world (and at the airline) and till recently the face of the airline had a chance to come and tell you that they were on your side and that you mattered. That did more to salvage some loyalty than thousands of avios of compensation, and it sorted the problem much earlier thereby preventing you from thinking about it over and again for hours and hours!! Now instead, they shy away discreetly for fear of that traumatic possible request for a glass of sparkling water which they would not know how to politely answer and the instant incident recovery is lost. I'm sure Cruz will tell me that this is anecdotal, but I don't think it is. I think it is the 'psychological effect' of BoB, and as for many other laws, psychological effects are often stronger and more noteworthy than their more obvious mechanical equivalents.
In short, before BoB, I'd say I had SCCM coming to say hello and speak for a few minute on at least 80% of my ET flights, now it is well below 10%. It is not about feeling important or anything, just that a few minutes of chatting made a flight more pleasant for passengers, and quite conceivably for crew.
Last edited by orbitmic; Dec 9, 2017 at 4:46 am