Sep 29, 2016, 2:55 am
Last edit by: Aus_Mal
This thread is for opinions on the concept of Buy on Board, concerned with the rights or wrongs of the decision to introduce it.
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
There is a separate thread for experiences, anecdotes, reactions and related comments, which is to be found here:
Buy on board: Experiences and reactions from BA's shorthaul economy services
Useful sub-links
chongcao posted a comparison of other oneworld airlines' BOB prices
Not happy about these changes?
If you have an existing booking, you may be able to complain and get 1000 Avios or cancel for free until 28 days before departure. BA's complaint form.
However, in November 2016, phone calls to BA indicated that "no refunds would be given as food & drinks were complimentary and not part of the T&C."
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
There is a separate thread for experiences, anecdotes, reactions and related comments, which is to be found here:
Buy on board: Experiences and reactions from BA's shorthaul economy services
Useful sub-links
chongcao posted a comparison of other oneworld airlines' BOB prices
Not happy about these changes?
If you have an existing booking, you may be able to complain and get 1000 Avios or cancel for free until 28 days before departure. BA's complaint form.
However, in November 2016, phone calls to BA indicated that "no refunds would be given as food & drinks were complimentary and not part of the T&C."
Buy on board: Implemented on BA short haul - opinions on the concept
Jun 29, 2017, 2:30 pm
#3571
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Leeds ,Yorks UK
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But see, where HilFly is coming from is the belief that people still see eating and drinking as an inherent part of travel. I am not so sure many people do. Most just see it as a means of transportation. So when you theorize based on the golden vision of air travel it is one thing, while when you simply view a plane as a bus or a city train, the concerns that are mentioned here suddenly disappear. Judging by the numbers and the surveys that BA conducts (which many do not believe), I may be right that most people do not care about food and drinks. But let's see what happens next year or in two/three years - if BA starts loosing passengers due to the introduction of BoB, unlike many here, I will have no problem with saying that my opinion was wrong.
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So few people want to eat when flying then even the fewer number of people who may not be able to buy what they want will not really make the overall satisfaction scores lower. As someone who flies with the BoB PS to London almost every month I don't see many people, even people with kids, order food. Some people buy alcohol but only two or three people buy food. I see it as a non issue. Again, your starting point is that eating and drinking is what people expect when flying. I strongly believe that attitudes have shifted, and most people find flying on an aiprplane as common as taking a bus, and they don't expect being fed on a bus. I just disagree that people expect food on airplanes. Not these days.
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So few people want to eat when flying then even the fewer number of people who may not be able to buy what they want will not really make the overall satisfaction scores lower. As someone who flies with the BoB PS to London almost every month I don't see many people, even people with kids, order food. Some people buy alcohol but only two or three people buy food. I see it as a non issue. Again, your starting point is that eating and drinking is what people expect when flying. I strongly believe that attitudes have shifted, and most people find flying on an aiprplane as common as taking a bus, and they don't expect being fed on a bus. I just disagree that people expect food on airplanes. Not these days.
Jun 29, 2017, 3:13 pm
#3572
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Programs: Life Miles, Miles and more
Posts: 518
My rather younger 21 year old brother expressed this, he said that there's really no need for free food on flights 3 hours less, but he is a bit sad that the impression he used to have of BA as a first class airline is gone. And he doesn't really fly, so that was more just about having a positive symbol representing Britain round the world. (I should add he is a full on corbynite so not a nationalistic tubthumper!
What I don't believe for a second is that BA has received majority positive feedback. The menu isn't even good, on every other BOB airline I've flown around the world there is far better choice. A few M&S sandwiches, really?
Within Europe no-one will pay more to connect for a g&t but it probably will lose some long haul business involving a connection. How much we will see.
Jun 29, 2017, 11:28 pm
#3573
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
I am sorry but may I ask you where I am wrong exactly? And what am I defending? I refer to BA's statistics and passenger numbers, you refer to the opinions of your friends. Do you see a difference? Do your friends speak for me as well? Do they know what I and others expect from BA?
Last edited by Andriyko; Jun 29, 2017 at 11:38 pm
Jun 29, 2017, 11:38 pm
#3574
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
So, when I say that people on longer short haul routes do not want to eat you don't believe me but you are quick to accept what others say about their needs as universal truth and a fact. KBP to LON Is a 3+ hours flight and I see that only a handful of people order anything. What do you base your assertion that people expect food when flying on?
Jun 30, 2017, 1:45 am
#3575
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
I think we'll just agree to differ here.
Jun 30, 2017, 2:42 pm
#3576
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: EDI
Posts: 792
Well that was nice. Delayed flybe from Edinburgh to Manchester tonight... They did the Bob for free
Jun 30, 2017, 2:52 pm
#3577
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,709
Y'all do realise of course that even if it was a failure, they'd still be saying it was a success? That's marketing.....
Jun 30, 2017, 2:56 pm
#3578
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: AA
Posts: 14,733
I have friends that are fairly aware travelers, at least here in the US. More than a few chose BA for recent trips to Europe, possibly because of price, possibly because at least based on past experience BA used to be better than US carriers. All were quite shocked to get onboard their BA SH flights and not even get a free non-alcoholic drink. At least one decided they needed to buy food in LHR because after the SH flight, they weren't certain they would get anything for free on their longhaul flight. And then they all went back to their Facebook pages, Twitter feeds, etc complaining about how bad BA is compared to US carriers.
If you live in the UK and you fly even semi-regularly, then yes I would be surprised if you didn't know by now that BA has gone to BOB on SH. The problem is that not all BA passengers live in the UK and their local news probably isn't publicizing every change made by a foreign carrier. So yes, this news is just reaching lots of infrequent passengers. So no the full impact of BOB isn't yet known. It will be seen after all these infrequent travelers go home, and tell their friends who are getting ready to book their next holiday that BA isn't what it was, they should book Air France or Aegean instead.
If you live in the UK and you fly even semi-regularly, then yes I would be surprised if you didn't know by now that BA has gone to BOB on SH. The problem is that not all BA passengers live in the UK and their local news probably isn't publicizing every change made by a foreign carrier. So yes, this news is just reaching lots of infrequent passengers. So no the full impact of BOB isn't yet known. It will be seen after all these infrequent travelers go home, and tell their friends who are getting ready to book their next holiday that BA isn't what it was, they should book Air France or Aegean instead.
Jun 30, 2017, 5:22 pm
#3579
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Location: London
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Posts: 17,008
Full economy class cabins have little to do with appreciation of on board service, more to do with the price of tickets.
In short, yield management fills aircraft. Not free drinks and a packet of crisps. These luxury goods might allow the airline to lift average yields a notch, but by the same token getting rid of the goodies can lower average yields.
Jun 30, 2017, 5:54 pm
#3580
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: Accor PLT,Thai Silver, HH Dia, SPG Titanium (LT Gold), Aegean Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 5,119
BA has made a BIG mistake here and is now facing the criticism that it deserves. I have been on 4 hour flights where food has run out. To be sitting in the twilight zone desperate for a drink when it takes an eternity to get to you is not acceptable. Anyone who thinks the change in policy is acceptable is in the wrong as BOB does not work.
Jun 30, 2017, 11:28 pm
#3581
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,991
LHR to TXL yesterday, on a completely full flight with not a single empty seat in either cabin, the initial "welcome on board" announcement spoke of the "fantastic selection" of refreshments to buy on board.
However, the passenger in 6A (the first row of ET) was told that they only had a few beef sandwiches and fruit salads. And, after checking, one focaccia.
Six months after the introduction of BoB, I can only surmise that the glossy menus are mere marketing and that British Airways has no intention of fully catering its short-haul flights.
However, the passenger in 6A (the first row of ET) was told that they only had a few beef sandwiches and fruit salads. And, after checking, one focaccia.
Six months after the introduction of BoB, I can only surmise that the glossy menus are mere marketing and that British Airways has no intention of fully catering its short-haul flights.
Jul 1, 2017, 5:46 am
#3582
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, ex-BD Gold, SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 2,040
I've posted it before, as have others. If BA did this as US airlines do on domestic flights, with free soft drinks, water, coffee and tea, but food and alcohol BOB, they could generate a huge amount of goodwill. Most of us don't care about food on short flights, but the beverages would be a clear differentiation from EZ and FR.
Jul 2, 2017, 2:09 am
#3583
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
Andriyko,
I fly a 4+ hour segment regularly. I have witnessed Dozens if not scores of passengers express dismay at the policy, and even worse when hardly anything that they want is onboard. Generally I am seeing the FA's explain/apologize every row or two on every single flight on these segments. I also personally know dozens of people who will no longer connect via London when traveling to the Americas because of this issue, as they do not want to go 4+ hours without food (or no selection of pay for food) then have a 2-6 hour connection, on a four figure ticket in economy when they can choose literally a dozen other carriers that will give them food.
Personally as I have flown these segments in Club and Y, I would like to ask Alex, why is it that I have to have a choice of only two things when flying in Club Europe??!! If this was his reasoning for BoB??!!
I fly a 4+ hour segment regularly. I have witnessed Dozens if not scores of passengers express dismay at the policy, and even worse when hardly anything that they want is onboard. Generally I am seeing the FA's explain/apologize every row or two on every single flight on these segments. I also personally know dozens of people who will no longer connect via London when traveling to the Americas because of this issue, as they do not want to go 4+ hours without food (or no selection of pay for food) then have a 2-6 hour connection, on a four figure ticket in economy when they can choose literally a dozen other carriers that will give them food.
Personally as I have flown these segments in Club and Y, I would like to ask Alex, why is it that I have to have a choice of only two things when flying in Club Europe??!! If this was his reasoning for BoB??!!
Jul 2, 2017, 7:16 am
#3584
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,210
In which case you're getting this all secondhand and therefore may be unaware of the fact that most services do have sufficient catering in both directions. There are exceptions,particularly on return sectors to London, but broadly speaking BoB has settled down, mostly it works fine (though still scope for improvement), and flights are pretty much as full as ever. I see no evidence of this move being reversed.
Jul 2, 2017, 8:03 am
#3585
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: London
Posts: 344
I had one of my best ever short haul economy experiences with ba recently on a city flyer route from Stansted. Fast check in with no queue in an airport that was otherwise rammed, decent legroom, complementary on board breakfast and beverages, good staff... exactly as it should be. I hadnt realised that the cityflyer flights were unaffected by the bob thing so it was a very pleasant surprise and it really did remind me that even on a short flight, an inch or so more space and a bit of food and drink can turn something to be endured into something quite enjoyable. I would value that extra comfort at considerably more than my bacon roll, fruit and glass of sparkling water cost them to deliver.