Sep 29, 2016, 2:55 am
Last edit by: Aus_Mal
This thread is for opinions on the concept of Buy on Board, concerned with the rights or wrongs of the decision to introduce it.
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
There is a separate thread for experiences, anecdotes, reactions and related comments, which is to be found here:
Buy on board: Experiences and reactions from BA's shorthaul economy services
Useful sub-links
chongcao posted a comparison of other oneworld airlines' BOB prices
Not happy about these changes?
If you have an existing booking, you may be able to complain and get 1000 Avios or cancel for free until 28 days before departure. BA's complaint form.
However, in November 2016, phone calls to BA indicated that "no refunds would be given as food & drinks were complimentary and not part of the T&C."
An information thread exists for your questions, particularly if they are on factual matters, here:
Buy on board: Information guide for BA shorthaul economy services
There is a separate thread for experiences, anecdotes, reactions and related comments, which is to be found here:
Buy on board: Experiences and reactions from BA's shorthaul economy services
Useful sub-links
chongcao posted a comparison of other oneworld airlines' BOB prices
Not happy about these changes?
If you have an existing booking, you may be able to complain and get 1000 Avios or cancel for free until 28 days before departure. BA's complaint form.
However, in November 2016, phone calls to BA indicated that "no refunds would be given as food & drinks were complimentary and not part of the T&C."
Buy on board: Implemented on BA short haul - opinions on the concept
Oct 1, 2016, 9:11 am
#962
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
LONDON - DUBLIN, outbound 1st DEC, return 8th DEC
BA (from Heathrow/City/Gatwick), cheapest return £73.21 (Heathrow)
Fare: £20.00
APD: £13.00
Passenger Service Charge: £29.81
Irish Passenger S.C: £10.40
Total: £73.21
Pay by credit card: + £5.00 = £78.21
RYANAIR (from Gatwick or Stansted), cheapest return £29.98
Total: £29.98
Pay by credit card: + £0.60 = £30.58
Difference about £48 but for Silver and Golds lounge access included, plus earn Avios and TPs, plus LHR or LCY may be more convenient.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LONDON - FRANKFURT, outbound 1st DEC, return 8th DEC
BA (from Heathrow/City), cheapest return £100.01
Fare: £20.00
APD: £13.00
PSC: £29.81
Germany PSC: £22.90
Germany Security Charge: £7.90
Germany Tax: £6.40
Total: £100.01
Pay by credit card: + £5.00 = £105.01
RYANAIR (Stansted to Hahn): £39.98
Pay by credit card + £0.80 = £40.78
Difference about £60. Hahn is in the middle of nowhere. As above lounges, convenient of LHR and Avios/TPs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LONDON - MADRID, 1st-8th DEC
BA (from Heathrow and City, Gatwick codeshare), cheapest BA metal from LHR £90.41 but no HBO fares (So BA has one checked luggage for this route).
Fare: £30.00
APD: £13.00
PSC: £29.81
Spanish departure tax: £13.90
Spanish Security Fee: £0.50
Spanish security Tax: £3.20
Total: £90.41
Pay by credit card + £5.00 = £95.41
RYANAIR (from Stansted), cheapest fare for the date chosen £63.73
Pay by credit card: + £1.27 = £65.00
*if you are flexible the cheapest return can be had for £33.98 or £40.18 depends on your flexibility
Difference about £30. As above lounges, Avios/TPs and convenience with BA.
EASYJET (from Gatwick and Luton, the cheapest departure from Luton and back to either airport), cheapest fare £49.98
Pay by credit card: + £0.49 = £50.47
NORWEGIAN (from Gatwick), cheapest fare £55.60
FARE: £11.20
TAXES and FEES: £44.40 (compulsory tax total £30.60, assume Gatwick charge £13.80)
TOTAL: £55.60
Pay by credit card: + £1.10 = £56.70
So how BA is going to compete (as Alex Cruz the cutter said that BA need to face the competition from LCC) if BA can not match the price at all while actively lower its standard to or below the LCC competitor? And do not let me start with ONE WAY fares!
BA (from Heathrow/City/Gatwick), cheapest return £73.21 (Heathrow)
Fare: £20.00
APD: £13.00
Passenger Service Charge: £29.81
Irish Passenger S.C: £10.40
Total: £73.21
Pay by credit card: + £5.00 = £78.21
RYANAIR (from Gatwick or Stansted), cheapest return £29.98
Total: £29.98
Pay by credit card: + £0.60 = £30.58
Difference about £48 but for Silver and Golds lounge access included, plus earn Avios and TPs, plus LHR or LCY may be more convenient.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LONDON - FRANKFURT, outbound 1st DEC, return 8th DEC
BA (from Heathrow/City), cheapest return £100.01
Fare: £20.00
APD: £13.00
PSC: £29.81
Germany PSC: £22.90
Germany Security Charge: £7.90
Germany Tax: £6.40
Total: £100.01
Pay by credit card: + £5.00 = £105.01
RYANAIR (Stansted to Hahn): £39.98
Pay by credit card + £0.80 = £40.78
Difference about £60. Hahn is in the middle of nowhere. As above lounges, convenient of LHR and Avios/TPs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LONDON - MADRID, 1st-8th DEC
BA (from Heathrow and City, Gatwick codeshare), cheapest BA metal from LHR £90.41 but no HBO fares (So BA has one checked luggage for this route).
Fare: £30.00
APD: £13.00
PSC: £29.81
Spanish departure tax: £13.90
Spanish Security Fee: £0.50
Spanish security Tax: £3.20
Total: £90.41
Pay by credit card + £5.00 = £95.41
RYANAIR (from Stansted), cheapest fare for the date chosen £63.73
Pay by credit card: + £1.27 = £65.00
*if you are flexible the cheapest return can be had for £33.98 or £40.18 depends on your flexibility
Difference about £30. As above lounges, Avios/TPs and convenience with BA.
EASYJET (from Gatwick and Luton, the cheapest departure from Luton and back to either airport), cheapest fare £49.98
Pay by credit card: + £0.49 = £50.47
NORWEGIAN (from Gatwick), cheapest fare £55.60
FARE: £11.20
TAXES and FEES: £44.40 (compulsory tax total £30.60, assume Gatwick charge £13.80)
TOTAL: £55.60
Pay by credit card: + £1.10 = £56.70
So how BA is going to compete (as Alex Cruz the cutter said that BA need to face the competition from LCC) if BA can not match the price at all while actively lower its standard to or below the LCC competitor? And do not let me start with ONE WAY fares!
Oct 1, 2016, 9:12 am
#963
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
Oct 1, 2016, 9:25 am
#965
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
Oct 1, 2016, 9:27 am
#966
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
You said:
...As to LCC competition, my experience simply does not tally with what you describe. On my most regular route, LON-MRS, I can often get a return on FR for £40-60, one on Easyjet for £60-80. I will be very lucky if I find one on BA for less than £100. Yes, these are from different airports. But it seems to me that a large porportion of the London flying public is not tied to a particular airport. Sure, there will be preferences (I would prefer LHR over LGW over STN) but these does not mean that there is no competition between flights from different airports...
I simply remarked that your price differential doesn't take into account the benefit of lounge access and a cheaper to get to airport (and later I said Avios and TP earning potential too). That's it.
...As to LCC competition, my experience simply does not tally with what you describe. On my most regular route, LON-MRS, I can often get a return on FR for £40-60, one on Easyjet for £60-80. I will be very lucky if I find one on BA for less than £100. Yes, these are from different airports. But it seems to me that a large porportion of the London flying public is not tied to a particular airport. Sure, there will be preferences (I would prefer LHR over LGW over STN) but these does not mean that there is no competition between flights from different airports...
I simply remarked that your price differential doesn't take into account the benefit of lounge access and a cheaper to get to airport (and later I said Avios and TP earning potential too). That's it.
I'm finding hard to understand what the 'mistake' is that you say I've made 
Could it be that you made a mistake in saying that I made a mistake? 
More seriously, you are correct that a fully accurate comparison of costs should include factors such as transport costs, any benefits provided at the airport such as lounge access and any other FFP perk such as FF miles. What I am questioning is the significance of these in average Joe's decision as to whether to fly BA rather than U2 or FR and positing that whether average Joe perceives BA as a "better airline" or not is more likely to influence whether they are ready to pay a (moderately) higher headline fare to fly on BA.
Last edited by NickB; Oct 1, 2016 at 9:33 am
Oct 1, 2016, 9:33 am
#967
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
But your comment is premised on people taking a calculator, something I suggested most people tend not to do, so you isolated a small portion of reasoning rather than following the full flow of the argument.
Yes I did. I added valuable context in one area, on a post in an internet forum @:-) And?
The mistake would be to over-estimate the significance of transport costs or lounge access in airline choice. Sure, for some people it will be important but for most it won't.
But I didn't do that.
It cannot be ruled out but my inclination, for the reasons above, would be that you are making a mistake in saying that I made a mistake in saying that you made a mistake in saying that I made a mistake.
More seriously, you are correct that a fully accurate comparison of costs should include factors such as transport costs, any benefits provided at the airport such as lounge access and any other FFP perk such as FF miles. What I am questioning is the significance of these in average Joe's decision as to whether to fly BA rather than U2 or FR and positing that whether average Joe perceives BA as a "better airline" or not is more likely to influence whether they are ready to pay a higher headline fare to fly on BA.
Maybe you underestimate 'Average Joe', whoever the owner of that unfortunate label is
Yes I did. I added valuable context in one area, on a post in an internet forum @:-) And?
The mistake would be to over-estimate the significance of transport costs or lounge access in airline choice. Sure, for some people it will be important but for most it won't.
But I didn't do that.
It cannot be ruled out but my inclination, for the reasons above, would be that you are making a mistake in saying that I made a mistake in saying that you made a mistake in saying that I made a mistake.
More seriously, you are correct that a fully accurate comparison of costs should include factors such as transport costs, any benefits provided at the airport such as lounge access and any other FFP perk such as FF miles. What I am questioning is the significance of these in average Joe's decision as to whether to fly BA rather than U2 or FR and positing that whether average Joe perceives BA as a "better airline" or not is more likely to influence whether they are ready to pay a higher headline fare to fly on BA.
Maybe you underestimate 'Average Joe', whoever the owner of that unfortunate label is
Oct 1, 2016, 9:37 am
#968
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: ±38,000 feet
Programs: LH HON, BA GGL, AF Plat, EK Plat
Posts: 6,428
I have now booked a couple of inconvenient LHR-ATH-VIE flights on A3 just because I want BA to know I am not happy with the lack of ET catering (and to also try A3 as I read some good reports by headingwest on A3 forum).
Oct 1, 2016, 9:37 am
#969
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,653
Dunno then. Wait for the externally facing policy to be published on Speedbirdclub I guess. Try calling BA and ask them to put notes in the booking so that the OTA can authorise the cancellation?
But that's the only way it'll change.
But that's the only way it'll change.
Oct 1, 2016, 9:50 am
#970
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,464
, but you will not be disappointed.Would OS direct or LH via MUC/FRA or LX/AF not be more convenient?
Oct 1, 2016, 9:50 am
#971
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
What I don't think you realise is that I've already been switching my shorthaul flying away from BA even before this latest announcement. These 6 flights were booked ages ago - some back in February. SK, FR and A3 are all winners. BA is the loser.
If BA authorised the agents to cancel the bookings the agents would still take their cut, believe me I've experienced this too!
If BA authorised the agents to cancel the bookings the agents would still take their cut, believe me I've experienced this too!
Oct 1, 2016, 9:54 am
#972
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: ±38,000 feet
Programs: LH HON, BA GGL, AF Plat, EK Plat
Posts: 6,428
I do like OS and travel with them quite often (though I do not publish them in my BA97), but wanted to try something new, and given my TK status is expiring next year, time to start building my A3 status and the upgrade certificated will come handy. ^
Oct 1, 2016, 9:57 am
#973
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
What I don't think you realise is that I've already been switching my shorthaul flying away from BA even before this latest announcement. These 6 flights were booked ages ago - some back in February. SK, FR and A3 are all winners. BA is the loser.
If BA authorised the agents to cancel the bookings the agents would still take their cut, believe me I've experienced this too!
If BA authorised the agents to cancel the bookings the agents would still take their cut, believe me I've experienced this too!
Oct 1, 2016, 9:59 am
#974
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
Oct 1, 2016, 10:04 am
#975
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
As a Gold member, you get 625 avios, silver 375 avios (cheapest booked in O class)
So let us average it out for the sake of comparison. It means on average silver and gold member would get 500 Avios and 5 TP. But for the sake of comparison, we use Silver as the yardstick.
Since 375 Avios is equal to the BA BOB value of £3.00. For a return it would be £6.00 value of Avios and 10 TP.
So now the price difference is down to £41.63 per return.
To qualify for Silver, you need 600 TPs. Let us not consider any other route but LON - DUB since we are doing the absolute comparison. You need to fly 60 returns on this route in this price to get to Silver. However, since you qualify on the 50th BA flight so that is a minimum of 25 returns to qualify for Silver.
So that you will have to pay over £1190.75 (or, as a silver member, the difference is £1,040.75 after deduct Avios benefits) in price difference in order to get lounge access.
If you are blue card member and bronze card member, the price difference is even much bigger.
Do you really wish to pay £1,040.75 per year to get lounge access just to have a pack of crisps and a glass of water or whatever? You might think it is worth the money at present. But you may want to think twice when BA starts to cut in lounges as the next source of cut.