BA's reimbursement offer leaving me short
Aug 10, 2016, 1:56 pm
#46
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 629
Fully agree. While most of us would agree that £295/room/night is a lot of money, EC261 clearly makes it the airline's responsibility to offer passengers stranded overnight or beyond a certain length of time (regardless of cause) accommodation.
I think it is fine and reasonable for them to encourage passengers to try and sort out their own accommodation if they are overwhelmed, but they do not have the power or the right to supersede a regulation by setting a limit which is not part of it. In fact, even saying that they set a limit is not good enough although arguably, if they did, best strategy would be to get back to them and say that this is impossible and they need to deliver. In this case, however, OP says that he received no such warning so BA have to cough up.
It would of course be entirely different if OP had unilaterally taken the liberty to book accommodation to avoid queuing etc (which is why I discourage people from doing that) but in this case, I'd write back ideally mentioning the name (or failing that description) of the person who told you to make your own arrangements and saying that you refuse the underpayment.
I think it is fine and reasonable for them to encourage passengers to try and sort out their own accommodation if they are overwhelmed, but they do not have the power or the right to supersede a regulation by setting a limit which is not part of it. In fact, even saying that they set a limit is not good enough although arguably, if they did, best strategy would be to get back to them and say that this is impossible and they need to deliver. In this case, however, OP says that he received no such warning so BA have to cough up.
It would of course be entirely different if OP had unilaterally taken the liberty to book accommodation to avoid queuing etc (which is why I discourage people from doing that) but in this case, I'd write back ideally mentioning the name (or failing that description) of the person who told you to make your own arrangements and saying that you refuse the underpayment.
Aug 11, 2016, 11:35 am
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 168
(...)
If none of the airport hotels have rooms as we all suspect, the obvious answer is the 20minute train ride to central london at £35rtn per person. BA can't base cost on model of BA running own coaches at minimal costs or airport HOPPAs at £9rtn
It is unreasonable if BA expect OP to use Connexxion Slow Tube taking 45plus minutes to/from London at £20rtn
I can quite believe in this case that various airlines have already filled up the LHR vicinity hotels Hilton/HGI/DT/CP/HI/HIE/Travelodge/Premier/Marriott etc, and even hotels slightly further away, so OP looked for any hotels near to Paddington Station where Heathow Express goes to.
(...)
It would also be better if OP and colleague made separate claims, so travel HEX is split. Two can share a taxi to reduce costs, using HEX/Train there is no saving for two or more.
If none of the airport hotels have rooms as we all suspect, the obvious answer is the 20minute train ride to central london at £35rtn per person. BA can't base cost on model of BA running own coaches at minimal costs or airport HOPPAs at £9rtn
It is unreasonable if BA expect OP to use Connexxion Slow Tube taking 45plus minutes to/from London at £20rtn
I can quite believe in this case that various airlines have already filled up the LHR vicinity hotels Hilton/HGI/DT/CP/HI/HIE/Travelodge/Premier/Marriott etc, and even hotels slightly further away, so OP looked for any hotels near to Paddington Station where Heathow Express goes to.
(...)
It would also be better if OP and colleague made separate claims, so travel HEX is split. Two can share a taxi to reduce costs, using HEX/Train there is no saving for two or more.
I did take screenshots of what Booking.com was showing me:
My biggest gripe just now is that the only way to communicate with BA about the issue is by clicking a link in their emails to me and filling out a form. Their responses don't give any detail, just a bland re-statement of "this is all we're offering". For example:
Dear Mr Twoflower
Thanks for coming back to us about your flight from Berlin on 15 June. You’re clearly unhappy with the amount of reimbursement we’ve offered you for your out of pocket expenses and I understand why, but please let me explain our position.
You mentioned we didn’t tell you specifically which costs we would cover and you think our contribution towards your expenses isn’t appropriate for what you went through. When we’re disrupted on such a huge scale, we have to decide what we’ll cover depending on how our customers were affected.
We know we have a responsibility to help you as much as we can. The contribution we’ve made towards your claim is in line with what we can offer and I hope you’ll understand we have to be consistent so we’re fair to all our customers. This means we can’t make an exception this time and I’m so sorry to let you down.
I’m afraid your total claim is more than what we consider to be reasonable costs for hotels and alternative transport.
Thanks for coming back to us about your flight from Berlin on 15 June. You’re clearly unhappy with the amount of reimbursement we’ve offered you for your out of pocket expenses and I understand why, but please let me explain our position.
You mentioned we didn’t tell you specifically which costs we would cover and you think our contribution towards your expenses isn’t appropriate for what you went through. When we’re disrupted on such a huge scale, we have to decide what we’ll cover depending on how our customers were affected.
We know we have a responsibility to help you as much as we can. The contribution we’ve made towards your claim is in line with what we can offer and I hope you’ll understand we have to be consistent so we’re fair to all our customers. This means we can’t make an exception this time and I’m so sorry to let you down.
I’m afraid your total claim is more than what we consider to be reasonable costs for hotels and alternative transport.
Aug 11, 2016, 11:47 am
#50
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,803
Does anyone have a suggestion for getting this past what appears to be first-line responders? My general approach in these things is not to take No for an answer from someone who doesn't have the authority to say Yes. Question is how to get this to someone who has this authority?
I would also urge MCOL (Money Claim Online), go to the EC261 thread in the Dashboard and you will find how how to do this. The dashboard also has a thread that explains all the abbreviations that unfortunately we are rather fond of in this forum (and I'm one of the worst suspects).
Key to this - if you have had more than 2 rebuffs - is to set a reasonable timetable, and stick to it. So add up what you are owed, give BA a letter before action giving 16 days to pay (or indicate they will pay); then on day 17 press MCOL. What you are owed is all accommodation, travel, food, drinks and communications which are reasonable and for which you have receipts / screenshots. I wouldn't mess about on this to be honest, you are the consumer and the protections are there for cases like this.
Have a good look at that thread, you will see it's actually rather rare for MCOL to actually go very far when it comes to BA specifically. By all means reach out to the experts via FT or via PM if necessary.
Aug 11, 2016, 11:50 am
#51
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 168
OK, I've had a look through the screenshots, very well done for keeping them! My opinion - for what it is worth - is that the Mandeville was your best option given you needed 2 rooms. BA had to accommodate you, that is the law, and there is no limit involved. If BA wanted to keep the cost down they could: by negotiating distress rates and having enough staff to handle this. It's more efficient for BA (and for clued up passengers like you) for you to sort yourself out, and from what I'm seeing here, you had no alternative. Being "fair" to other passengers is rubbish, there isn't a secondary market in bedrooms here, merely a requirement to get people into a hotel, whether it costs £50 or £300.
I would also urge MCOL (Money Claim Online), go to the EC261 thread in the Dashboard and you will find how how to do this. The dashboard also has a thread that explains all the abbreviations that unfortunately we are rather fond of in this forum (and I'm one of the worst suspects).
Key to this - if you have had more than 2 rebuffs - is to set a reasonable timetable, and stick to it. So add up what you are owed, give BA a letter before action giving 16 days to pay (or indicate they will pay); then on day 17 press MCOL. What you are owed is all accommodation, travel, food, drinks and communications which are reasonable and for which you have receipts / screenshots. I wouldn't mess about on this to be honest, you are the consumer and the protections are there for cases like this.
Have a good look at that thread, you will see it's actually rather rare for MCOL to actually go very far when it comes to BA specifically. By all means reach out to the experts via FT or via PM if necessary.
I would also urge MCOL (Money Claim Online), go to the EC261 thread in the Dashboard and you will find how how to do this. The dashboard also has a thread that explains all the abbreviations that unfortunately we are rather fond of in this forum (and I'm one of the worst suspects).
Key to this - if you have had more than 2 rebuffs - is to set a reasonable timetable, and stick to it. So add up what you are owed, give BA a letter before action giving 16 days to pay (or indicate they will pay); then on day 17 press MCOL. What you are owed is all accommodation, travel, food, drinks and communications which are reasonable and for which you have receipts / screenshots. I wouldn't mess about on this to be honest, you are the consumer and the protections are there for cases like this.
Have a good look at that thread, you will see it's actually rather rare for MCOL to actually go very far when it comes to BA specifically. By all means reach out to the experts via FT or via PM if necessary.
Aug 11, 2016, 12:09 pm
#53
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,210
If you have the determination to go through with fighting this then I think you should. BA can't really expect you to faff about finding your own accommodation inside spending limits during times of severe disruption.
I wonder what happens to those who are travelling without credit cards? Not everyone carries one.
I wonder what happens to those who are travelling without credit cards? Not everyone carries one.
Aug 11, 2016, 12:49 pm
#55
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: NCL
Programs: FB Plat; BAEC Gold
Posts: 930
Firstly let me say having read your account and seen your screenshots it is clear you didn't have much choice. I agree that BA washed their hands of you, with that you were on your own with no direction.
Under normal circumstances I think you should push BA all the way.
However you mention you were travelling with a colleague. To me that indicates you were on a business trip, what can your employer do to cover the costs? In this situation could they not cover the amount you are out of pocket. Or even better cover the whole cost with receipts and then you somehow give the money recouped from BA back.
Whilst it would let BA off the hook it saves you time and energy.
Under normal circumstances I think you should push BA all the way.
However you mention you were travelling with a colleague. To me that indicates you were on a business trip, what can your employer do to cover the costs? In this situation could they not cover the amount you are out of pocket. Or even better cover the whole cost with receipts and then you somehow give the money recouped from BA back.
Whilst it would let BA off the hook it saves you time and energy.
Aug 11, 2016, 1:03 pm
#56
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 948
Firstly let me say having read your account and seen your screenshots it is clear you didn't have much choice. I agree that BA washed their hands of you, with that you were on your own with no direction.
Under normal circumstances I think you should push BA all the way.
However you mention you were travelling with a colleague. To me that indicates you were on a business trip, what can your employer do to cover the costs? In this situation could they not cover the amount you are out of pocket. Or even better cover the whole cost with receipts and then you somehow give the money recouped from BA back.
Whilst it would let BA off the hook it saves you time and energy.
Under normal circumstances I think you should push BA all the way.
However you mention you were travelling with a colleague. To me that indicates you were on a business trip, what can your employer do to cover the costs? In this situation could they not cover the amount you are out of pocket. Or even better cover the whole cost with receipts and then you somehow give the money recouped from BA back.
Whilst it would let BA off the hook it saves you time and energy.
It would also mean having to send everything to two places, and continuing to do so every time BA screws up - which happens - until Brexit actually happens when they can elect to not follow european regulations.
Aug 11, 2016, 1:12 pm
#57
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,770
Very well done for saving the screenshots. That nicely answers the question I (reasonably, I think) asked in post #4.
More importantly, it is strong evidence in your favour if this did end up going all the way to court - which as c-w-s notes is highly unlikely.
This also serves as a very good reminder to all of us to save screenshots / documents / notes when you find yourself in a situation you might have to fight about later. It really does help!
Best of luck, OP.
More importantly, it is strong evidence in your favour if this did end up going all the way to court - which as c-w-s notes is highly unlikely.
This also serves as a very good reminder to all of us to save screenshots / documents / notes when you find yourself in a situation you might have to fight about later. It really does help!
Best of luck, OP.
Aug 11, 2016, 1:12 pm
#58
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 995
Firstly let me say having read your account and seen your screenshots it is clear you didn't have much choice. I agree that BA washed their hands of you, with that you were on your own with no direction.
Under normal circumstances I think you should push BA all the way.
However you mention you were travelling with a colleague. To me that indicates you were on a business trip, what can your employer do to cover the costs? In this situation could they not cover the amount you are out of pocket. Or even better cover the whole cost with receipts and then you somehow give the money recouped from BA back.
Whilst it would let BA off the hook it saves you time and energy.
Under normal circumstances I think you should push BA all the way.
However you mention you were travelling with a colleague. To me that indicates you were on a business trip, what can your employer do to cover the costs? In this situation could they not cover the amount you are out of pocket. Or even better cover the whole cost with receipts and then you somehow give the money recouped from BA back.
Whilst it would let BA off the hook it saves you time and energy.
Aug 11, 2016, 1:33 pm
#59
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,770
Not staggering at all. Why should OP bother fighting BA tooth and nail if the employer was willing to cover it anyway?
The thought occurred to me initially but I concluded - for the very reason that he was fighting it - that either the employer is extremely hard-nosed or the OP is self-employed or otherwise had to fund the trip himself.
The thought occurred to me initially but I concluded - for the very reason that he was fighting it - that either the employer is extremely hard-nosed or the OP is self-employed or otherwise had to fund the trip himself.