starspook

We purchased AA return tickets TPA-BGO. Seat assignments were obtained except for the return leg BGO-LHR, operated by AA/BA which we attempted to obtain online 24 hours pre-departure from BGO. While the LHR-CLT-TPA flights showed up, the leg from BGO-LHR had disappeared. After several futile efforts trying to deal with the Norwegian AA reps (we were on a small coastal ship) we were finally informed that our seat reservations had been canceled. At no time were we informed by AA or anyone else that this had occurred or the reason why, and no offer of assistance was given. We tried to find alternate flights back to the US with all the airlines operating in the area, including WAWA and Norwegian with no luck. It was early July and heavy travel time for students. We were finally able to find 2 Saga seats on Icelandair for the following day having to spend the night at the airport in Bergen.
AA's response was a $200 coupon per person and informing us that they take no responsibility for our canceled seats. This despite the fact that we have the Bergen airport pull-down clearly showing that our seats were canceled by AA/BA at 20:25Z on July 1, exactly 24 hours before our flight's departure. The flight was completely full so they sold our seats. The Dept of Transportation has been informed and have taken an interest. We are still dealing with our insurance company and have disputed AA's charge for the cost of the return portion of our ticket with our credit card company.
We are well traveled and served overseas for many years and have never experienced anything like this before. Any thoughts/suggestions would be welcome.

Yoshi212

Seems your issue should have been taken up with BA at the airport for the flight you were ticketed for. AA was your ticketing agent, assuming from your statements, so yes they should have helped you, but when things go south always try at the airport.

You need to find out who actually canceled your ticket and why. This was a BA operated flight so I'd start with them.

US DOT is a good way to get AA to kick in but I'd contact the Ministry of Transportation in Norway to get pressure on that end and eventually at least claim under EU 261.

FirstInFlight

Agreed on EC 261. There are companies that will file and pursue those claims for you. But continue to pursue the credit card dispute and any travel insurance you might have - those remedies are independent of EU 261.

Adam1222

Something is odd here. You found out your "seat reservations" were "canceled" before you got to the airport. Seat assignments being removed and a cancellation of your reservation are two different things. Did you try to check in for the flight at the airport on the day of travel?

What is a "Bergen airport pull-down"?

Also, AA didn't "dump you" in Norway. That implies that AA dropped you there when you weren't supposed to be there. Norway was your destination. Hyperbole won't help you get to the bottom of this.

starspook

We did stop at the airport and checked with the SAS ground staff who were handling the BA flight. They provided us with the flight sheet (not sure what it is called) clearly showing that the 2 seats were cancelled on July 1, 2016 for AA Flt. 6760. They tried to get us on the flight, but it was completely full.

We mailed all our paperwork to the Norwegian Transportklagenemnda and are awaiting a response.

Yoshi212

Was the ticket actually canceled or were you bumped from the flight where you should have been accommodated on the next flight? This definitely is an interesting case and somewhere there is a story that clarifies what happened.
One possibility is that you had confirmed tickets but no seating assignment and were them bumped from the flight as it was sold out? If so there are procedures the airline is to follow and maybe they failed there or you walked away to try to get home yourself?

starspook

Odd is one way to put it. Not sure how to differentiate between "removed" seat reservations and "cancellation" of our reservation. The latter would have entailed, presumably, cancellation of our entire itinerary BGO-LHR-CLT-TPA which was not the case. Instead our seat reservations were "removed" for only the BGO-LHR leg. And yes, we did attempt to check in on the day of travel.

I do consider that AA "dumped" us in Norway. We had a return ticket from the US and expected AA to honor our reservation to get us back to the States. Not only did they not advise us that we were going to have our seats canceled, but they made no effort whatsoever to help us find another way to get home. I call that getting dumped. Excuse the hyperbole.

wrp96

Except that it sounds like BA is the one that dumped you in Norway not AA.

Adam1222

You're still not providing helpful information.

You have a reservation, and you have seat assignments. People often think they are one and the same, but they're not. Many times your seat assignment will disappear, but that does not mean your reservation was canceled. Indeed, it would not be out of the ordinary at all for seat assignments on only one leg to be removed from a reservation. That would not mean your reservation on that leg was canceled. Your presumption that only one leg of a reservation wouldn't be canceled is groundless. Indeed, if that *isnt* what happened, and only your seat assignments were changed to unassigned, you really made this a much bigger deal than it needed to be.

Seats are not canceled. Reservations are, and seat *assignments* can be. You keep saying seats were canceled, though.

Dumped implies you were wrongfully put in Norway. You were properly delivered to Norway. For example, if you want to say "stranded" that would at least be closer to accurate. You can persist in language like "dumped" if it makes you feel better. It's not going to help you get a better outcome, though. (Especially since AA doesn't even fly to Norway)

starspook

Tried that with Flightright. Here is a portion of their response:

"As much as we would like to help you, your matter unfortunately lies outside our range of competence. Flightright helps air passengers claim their right to compensation for damages in regard to cancellations, delays and denied boarding. We are strictly bound to Regulation 261/2004 (EC). Your case is not covered by this regulation."

It would seem that an airline can, at will, cancel or "remove" seat assignments with impunity and sell the same tickets twice. Nice business.

Adam1222

Yes, an airline can change your seat assignments with impunity. Their response indicates:
(1) That you misunderstood what happened and if you had just been a bit more patient, the airline would have given you new seat assignments, or
(2) By continuing to phrase your complaints this way, Flightright misunderstands what you are trying to say happened.

There is a difference between seat assignments and reservations. You keep refusing to accept people trying to explain that to you.

Seat assignments = airline can change
Reservation/ticket = airline cannot without penalty

Each ticket does not correspond to an assigned seat. If you are indeed an experienced traveler as you suggest, it seems odd you don't know that or the concept of overbooking. Read, for example http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...-no-seats.html

Indeed, it is particularly common for seat assignments made by one carrier on another carrier's metal (here AA on BA) will not stick. For seating on BA, you shouldve been talking to BA.

Were you able to check in for the flight to London? That is a specific question. It does not ask "Did you have a seat assignment for the flight to London?"

Mwenenzi

As above, (several times) seat assignment and reservation are not the same. You can have a confirmed reservation and no specific seat assignment

Have you flown the first segments TPA-XXX-BGO?
Did you have a ticket number? Were any of the flights changed after first booking? Was the reservation paid for? How was it paid? Has the money gone from your bank account or on a credit card?
A PNR (6 character ) & seat number allocation is not a paid ticket.
To me the cancelling the flight exactly 24 hours before looks like it was not paid for or a change not confirmed.

I suspect we do not have all the information

beckoa

As this is for a BA operated flight, please follow the redirect to the BA forum.

~beckoa, co-moderator Information Desk

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to Flyertalk starspook, and welcome over here in the BA forum, which as your esteemed moderator rightly suspects, is the better home for it. The reason being that British Airways is the operator on Bergen to London, and they fully control the logistics of the flight in question. Welcome, and my apologies for the difficulties you had returning home, I hope you enjoyed your visit to Norway.

I'm quite familiar with the BGO-LHR service. It is rarely full, and offloading, or Involuntary Denied Boarding (IDB) to use the precise phrase, would be a red letter event there. What I don't understand is that there is a very clear policy for when this happens: you get rebooked for the entire trip, BGO to TPA. Now given you had AA tickets I can appreciate perhaps some issues at BGO, since they don't have a full ticketing office, but not many. The procedure there is to send you on to the next day's flight to LHR, where you would be rebooked as per the Joint Business Agreement, probably via the direct service to Tampa from Gatwick, which would not have delayed too you much. They would have booked, and paid for, a night at the Clarion Hotel, which is virtually built into the airport.

So what was it that led you to rebook your own travel?

Seat cancelling isn't a phrase used on BA, it's not they way it work, your flight may be overbooked, but usually you don't find that out before arrival at the airport. About a third of travellers on that service not have a nominated seat on that service before check-in opens.

If you were IDB'd, you would be entitled to compensation under EC261 from British Airways. The exception would be if AA failed to ticket properly, in which case they are the ones liable to pay it. This would be a cash figure of at least 250€ and probably 600€ per person, provided it is properly argued.

orbitmic

I appreciate that you are new to Flyertalk and probably think that people are being obstinate about word choices, but I think that all of us are just trying to understand what exactly happened to you and it is not obvious for your description.

Forget the seat assignments (as in you are in 12A and B or in 17 E and F etc). They are irrelevant and can be lost for so many reasons, including because BA - like most other European airlines - uses flexible configuration of their European aircraft so a seat that was assigned to you at a time it was in the Club Europe cabin (business) may have moved to Euro Traveller (economy) or the other way round.

The question is what happened to your flight reservation itself. Did you simply try to check in online and nothing happened? Or did it disappear from your booking before? Or something else? Could you just say when that BGO-LHR flight first disappeared from your booking to your knowledge, how you noticed, what you did then and what you were answered? THat would be really helpful.