Prospero

Towards the end of last month, the mod team learned that there were some issues with the Lounge Guesting thread and after making a few inquiries a picture of abuse emerged, corroborated by several trusted FTers we could not ignore.

The examples of abuse we were told about ranged from guests being left unattended for excessive lengths of time at one end of the spectrum to the suggestion that the lounge thread was being used to solicit guesting rights for cash at the other. The latter claim shocked us and while FT and BA are entirely independent entities and it can certainly be argued that any impropriety that occurs outside the realm of this forum is not the concern of this forum, we believed the claims, moreover the gravity of the claims necessitated an immediate response, so we curtailed the thread and placed an announcement on the forum to advise you why the meet up thread had been shut down. The advisory was a little vague at the time it was written because we needed to take stock of the situation before being able to give you a fuller explanation as to why the thread was taken down.

I think most of us will agree on the seriousness of the alleged impropriety and that the behaviour if true is certainly not in the spirit of this forum, and potentially places this forum’s good reputation into disrepute.

So, what happens now?
For the foreseeable future, we have suspended any activity publicising individual lounge attendances or guest requests and ask that you observe this please.

Will the meet-up thread return in the future?
We hope so. The forum mods and ambassadors have been discussing options which we hope will lead to a prudent course of action which will enable member's to connect with one another during their travels.

I’ll leave this thread open for positive suggestions - focused discussion would be appreciated.

Prospero
Moderator: BA forum

corporate-wage-slave

I support the closure of this thread, at least for the time being, it was a tough call - the Mods work very hard behind the scenes here. The best bit about that thread was the chance to meet fellow FTers travelling around, and hopefully that aspect can be preserved in some form or another. I will be reading the views here carefully - probably not commenting - but will lobby for a good outcome.

However I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the people who spent hour after hour keeping the thread alive, particularly stez in the past and PETER01 more recently. The Wiki format was crucial to make sense of it, and sometimes it need a lot of untangling! There are perhaps others who did a lot of tidying up who I didn't notice, and I'm sorry not to have been more attentative to mark their efforts by name, but they also deserving thanking. PETER01 hardly ever used the thread himself, so it was a labour of love for him.

vibrex

Many thanks for the above explanation. The announcement did come as a surprise to me and I suppose many others too. While it doesn't affect me greatly I do welcome the response based on the evidence provided.

I'm sure Mods and Ambassadors will have the full support from the rest of us.
Thanks again.

Swiss Tony

Thanks for the fuller explanation.

Crass behaviour if people were accepting cash in return for access, but the challenge as I see it is boards like this can ultimately be used for a whole range of things that could be considered 'wrong' - depending on your moral compass.

Should discussion of how to drop last legs by putting an airport change or overnight stop in be blocked?

What about sharing 'private' codes on a public basis?

I'm also aware of people on the board transferring miles to gold card holders so they can make bookings and access extra inventory. That doesn't seem to be in the spirit of things.

Then what about a mistake fare? (Which may or may not be a mistake)

Tobias-UK

+1 ^

Tobias-UK

Please do not try to derail this topic. Prospero has made it clear the purpose of the topic is to solicit positive suggestions of how a meetup thread could be reinstated, let's focus on that specific issue.

MPH1980

I find the suggestion that cash was being solicited rather shocking but also unsurprising I guess with human nature being what it is.

I was a frequent user of the thread until last year when I stopped offering at Heathrow for several reasons but mostly because I would mainly get requests from those who either a) could offer (silvers) but wouldn't or b) first ( or very low count) posters.

Since I believed this was a mutual benefit thread I felt that you should put in (either with offers or posts) to get out. Frankly I got bored of having to 'check someone out' to see if they met my self-imposed criteria.

Having said that - I've really enjoyed the experiences I have had meeting people and I would check the thread and offer meet ups instead of guesting.

I'm not sure I regard the unattended guests as a problem myself. I was always happy to have a drink with my guest or my guester. But I didnt make it a requirement. I've also been left in a lounge after being guested in because the guester was with friends.

It would be a shame to see it closed forever but also a shame to see it policed too strictly such that it becomes a burden to post or join in.

There has to be a middle ground and I hope we find it.

Prospero

Swiss Tony has made valid points. Believe me I would be the last person to thrust one's views of morality onto another person. I am confident I speak for my colleagues too.

The decision was a tremendously difficult one to call - potential implications relating to the forum’s reputation tipped the scales.

Ziz

I don't know if the people offering/asking for cash were established members or not. But if not, perhaps some extra rules would help like not allowing guesting or requests until you have x number of posts. Or require people to offer if they are able to. Or maybe if someone is approached for money or with an offer for money, there should be a reporting process whereby that person would either be banned or not allowed to use the guesting thread. I don't know if any of that would work, just ideas! I've really enjoyed the times I've guested/been guested and would like to see it continue.

Oaxaca

Prospero's explanation here is much appreciated. A few early offers aside, I did not participate in offering or accepting guesting via the thread (my involvement was occasional updating of the Wiki, and scanning it for potential meetups), so I hadn't really thought much about what constituted abuse.

My immediate thought on reading post 1 above was that I wouldn't have considered leaving someone unattended as abuse, but "cash for access" would be. Others might consider both wrong or maybe even both ok, so I can appreciate the decision wasn't easy for the mods.

Anyhow, for the future I'd like to see it reinstated if possible, as I always dislike the thought of the few spoiling something good for the many. I guess full reinstatement would depend on the scale of abuse and the ability/appetite of the mods to identify and deal with abusers (as I'm sure the general moderating takes plenty of their time already).

If that's not possible, from a personal viewpoint I'd be happy with a meetup-only thread, as I do like the idea of being able to see if other FTers will be passing through airports when I do. I haven't met that many FTers, but the encounters I've had have been very enjoyable.

matthandy

My personal view is that I would like to see a meet up thread but that it should only be available to established members, much like the Coupon Connection forum. After a couple of bad experiences I decided not to publicly post guest invites anymore but I would certainly miss the opportunity to catch up with regular FTers whilst on my travels if a way forward wasn't found.

OttoMH

I was very surprised to learn of the abuses. In the last three years of posting (maybe 15-20 opportunities) I have only guested others 3 times and certainly never been offered cash for access. Even CCR passes have gone unclaimed. I can only assume that a) the take up was very low and b) the abuses must've been very isolated cases.

I don't take objection to leaving guests unattended, so long as they don't embarrass themselves.. I was lucky enough to be guested to the CCR for a long layover once and had a lovely dinner and wines. Likewise I've guested in a sensible looking couple who had several hours before an evening departure. That's a lovely way to start your holiday and I'm glad I could offer it.

Maybe keeping it off the site is the best policy, like BA97 for example. Only hard core BAers participate there, so maybe any risk of abuse / nobbers is limited and no need for FT moderation?

Or a secret drop box and funny handshake...

tomparskate

I personally got guested in to GF at LHR a few years ago and found it a great experiance. Forme the lounge meetupwas a great way to meet people and even occasionally do a bit of networking!

Im sure the lounge meetup will continue on BA97 and I look forward to meeting more fellow travellers.

T8191

Dear Prospero ... thanks for the clarification. The proceedings here make more sense now.

Personally, I've never used it and wouldn't. I've never been 100% convinced by the morality of it, and the explanation reinforces my view. However, some here dedicated time to making the process, so I guess they deserve credit for "helping the Community".

My/our only ever guesting was the T5 Flounge by CWS, arranged by PM. However, I always look out for other FT-ers [by their bag-tags, and fail] and I do expose myself on another website that has all my flight details

Filthy Monkey