BA crew upgrading a passenger on board.
Apr 9, 2016, 12:35 am
#61
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Moscow / Aylesbury / Leeds
Programs: BA-GGL, SU-G Agean, G,, Hhonours D, Starwood G, IHG G,
Posts: 1,531
The captain is also allowed to exercise his or her discretion to upgrade someone on an occasional basis; in practical terms it is at the behest of the CSD. Or rather more usually, the CSM in my experience! Either way, be nice to the crew and do a lot of flying.
And yes, I agree before you even say it. More fool me for agreeing to do that schedule
Apr 9, 2016, 1:40 am
#62
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: London
Posts: 344
On this subject: I saw what must be he ultimate upgrade on my wife's Facebook account recently. A friend of hers posted a picture of her discount economy boarding pass to south Africa. 12 hours later she posted some pics of her actual seat, in First. Bumped from the cheapest seat to the most expensive once on board apparently. Nice!
Seems odd though. I would have thought they would have moved her to WTP, a WTP customer to CW and so on. That way three people are happy with an upgrade, not just one. Still, she loved it.
Seems odd though. I would have thought they would have moved her to WTP, a WTP customer to CW and so on. That way three people are happy with an upgrade, not just one. Still, she loved it.
Apr 9, 2016, 1:54 am
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Posts: 30,517
Well, I venture to say that it would be a lie on a proportion of occasions. And again, the big problem here is that while crew are usually very discreet when they are upgraded, not all are, and a few friends and family are not. It reminds me of another case where I was flying on one of my regular route and my neighbour was very nice and chatty and told me that she had spent a wonderful weekend in my city with her boyfriend who was the first officer on the flight and how much she loved the place etc. Very soon afterwards, she was (naturally) fetched by a crew member who told her that her seat had been changed. CE was very busy that day and I suspect that she had been told it was unlikely that she could be upgraded so she was quite happy. As it happened, I was happy for her, again, I don't mind the principle and on top of it, she was a nice and friendly person and frankly, part of me prefers someone like that to be upgraded rather than someone who takes it for granted and doesn't even look happy about it. That said, there was obviously nothing operational about the upgrade and if someone had asked and had been told so it would have been a straightforward lie and not something that would do the airline any good.
My sense is that the best is:
1) to try and improve procedures to maximise upgrades that can be sorted before boarding and minimise onboard upgrades. They look bad;
2) to ensure that anyone either offering one or benefitting from it is as discreet and neutral as possible in a confined space with lots of people looking at their neighbour;
3) if anyone questions it or complains, not explain anything on the ground that one cannot discuss the situation of another passenger and tell them that if they are unhappy about their own flight in any way they should feel free to contact customer service;
4) hope for the best.
Apr 9, 2016, 2:13 am
#64
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 134
For anyone who gets upset about these upgrades, please spare a thought for me, a lowly zone 6 rail commuter on a first class ticket. Its only 30% more and is in no way any different to standard class. I pay the premium to maximise my chances of a seat. The amount of self upgraders is amazing and sometimes i have to stand. Maybe 1 journey from 10 does an inspector come and kick them out. Get used to that and others being upgraded by the crew would be put into perspective!
I see it as the crews flight first (i.e. they are in control, not me) so its ok.
Self upgraders - you can just tell who they are!
Flying is much more fun than trains anyway.
Safe travels
I see it as the crews flight first (i.e. they are in control, not me) so its ok.
Self upgraders - you can just tell who they are!
Flying is much more fun than trains anyway.
Safe travels
Apr 9, 2016, 2:57 am
#66
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
For anyone who gets upset about these upgrades, please spare a thought for me, a lowly zone 6 rail commuter on a first class ticket. Its only 30% more and is in no way any different to standard class. I pay the premium to maximise my chances of a seat. The amount of self upgraders is amazing and sometimes i have to stand. Maybe 1 journey from 10 does an inspector come and kick them out. Get used to that and others being upgraded by the crew would be put into perspective!
At least on a flight that kind of self-upgrading is very rare.
Apr 9, 2016, 3:21 am
#68
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SFO, LON
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, Bonvoy Tit, Hilton Dia etc etc
Posts: 2,354
As many others have pointed out, "none of your business" doesn't cut it by a long way. This certainly doesn't rise to the level of "it's none of your business if a dictator's wife fills a thousand square feet with tens of thousands of shoes" 
but it's equally wrong in concept. It is our business if most people want to more or less play by the rules and perceive that not all do. It's not product degradation that worries me so much as the damage that is done to the company image and functioning as a whole.I'm grateful I now understand that there may be a genuine issue whereby folks who would in some way be entitled to an upgrade aren't getting it because of FLY, because I have been seeing this on almost every recent CE flight I have been on, remarkably enough, when I never did for decades. Hard to miss when you're in row one and the CSD hold up F&F at the front galley, lets everyone on, then places F&F in available CE seats.
And FWIW discretion is a tool that should be given to empower employees to rectify unusual, messy or complicated situations. If it becomes a mean to bestow favors (whether it's happening here or not), it does not end well. Likely outcomes are that the means to exercise discretion are taken away and we are all losers in the end as truly problematic situations become that much harder to solve.
I have not and would not write in to complain, but frankly one or two cases I have seen have been so egregious ... one person boarding, standing next to the CSD and grabbing "this one's with me" friends on a trip to Prague until 5 people ended in CE, I dunno, it looked a bit too cavalier. People of a more sour disposition might be inclined to send in nastygrams to BA, which, as I said, could make us all losers in the end.
I fully agree with you on that, but again, that is largely irrelevant as people have the right to feel "morally offended" on grounds of fairness by anything. At this rate, it is never any of your business if you see anything happening in front of you that you think is wrong (e.g. someone seemingly pinching something or harassing someone or mistreating a child etc) and the last thing you want is for people to look the other side. So it boils down to whether people are right or wrong to feel that this is "wrong". Like you, I do not think that it is, but I equally cannot blame them for thinking it.
...
1) to try and improve procedures to maximise upgrades that can be sorted before boarding and minimise onboard upgrades. They look bad;
2) to ensure that anyone either offering one or benefitting from it is as discreet and neutral as possible in a confined space with lots of people looking at their neighbour;
3) if anyone questions it or complains, not explain anything on the ground that one cannot discuss the situation of another passenger and tell them that if they are unhappy about their own flight in any way they should feel free to contact customer service;
4) hope for the best.
...
1) to try and improve procedures to maximise upgrades that can be sorted before boarding and minimise onboard upgrades. They look bad;
2) to ensure that anyone either offering one or benefitting from it is as discreet and neutral as possible in a confined space with lots of people looking at their neighbour;
3) if anyone questions it or complains, not explain anything on the ground that one cannot discuss the situation of another passenger and tell them that if they are unhappy about their own flight in any way they should feel free to contact customer service;
4) hope for the best.
I am not in any way morally offended by any of this, frankly. It just doesn't rise to that level. I don't even know if it's a case, like with employee expense reports in companies, where there's tacit agreement in terms of management choosing to not enforce rules they must publicly proclaim, except in very specific circumstances (blatant excess, govt business etc etc). If there is a genuine change leading to a genuine problem I hope BA can fix it before things get out of hand.
Apr 9, 2016, 3:41 am
#69
Join Date: Aug 2015
Programs: EY - Gold, BA - Gold
Posts: 512
But corruption, collusion and nepotism are often exactly what is happening. When you have paid a handsome sum - perhaps out of taxed income, perhaps hard-saved over years - to fly CW, it's understandably galling to see others upgraded simply because they have connections of some kind.
I've seen this from both sides of the fence.
I know someone who was WW cabin crew and who was always offering to get me upgraded. So once I told them about a specific flight that I was going to be on. They said that they knew the despatcher for that flight and would make a call. At the gate, I got whatever was the then equivalent of the red light and the beep, and asked to wait. The despatcher eventually came to the gate, bashed away at the keyboard and then handed me a new BP for CW. On board, though, I felt like I was treated with some disdain by the crew; I don't know whether it was because I was feeling uncomfortable with the situation anyway, or whether there was some real attitude because the crew knew how I'd got the upgrade. But thereafter I was careful not to give that CC any specific future flight details.
I also know someone who flew regularly with a colleague who had some sort of connection to a captain, whose word was always good enough to get the two of them upgraded into CW whenever they flew (and whoever was the operating crew). It would be done at the check-in desk; the colleague would ask the check-in agent to consult a note in the booking, a phone call would be made, and CW boarding passes would appear even though the booking was in economy. I saw this once with my own eyes; it happened so reliably to my friend that it was clearly not an occasional fluke.
From the other side of the fence, I've also been a normal CW passenger on flights where, after boarding was complete, the cabin crew have moved passengers into empty CW seats. I know there can be all sorts of legitimate reasons for this, but the body language and the way that the passengers interact with the crew thereafter usually strongly suggest that they are staff or similar, and have been upgraded for no reason other than connections. That's not simple luck or good fortune.
I suspect that none of us begrudges anyone a genuine operational upgrade on a legitimate basis, or by way of service recovery, or to recognise a genuinely important customer - but this is not what this type of upgrade is.
And - with similar recognition that my perception might be skewed after such an incident - there is sometimes a correlation between such an upgrade and the general performance of the cabin crew concerned. One particularly memorable incident, on a LHR-JFK, was followed by the most dire CW flight that we have ever had (which was a real come-down as we were supposed to have been on an LCY-JFK which was canx at the last minute).
Moreover, we know from experience on the other side of the Atlantic that it can be very easy for this to go way too far. So I think that there are legitimate grounds for concern about this.
I've seen this from both sides of the fence.
I know someone who was WW cabin crew and who was always offering to get me upgraded. So once I told them about a specific flight that I was going to be on. They said that they knew the despatcher for that flight and would make a call. At the gate, I got whatever was the then equivalent of the red light and the beep, and asked to wait. The despatcher eventually came to the gate, bashed away at the keyboard and then handed me a new BP for CW. On board, though, I felt like I was treated with some disdain by the crew; I don't know whether it was because I was feeling uncomfortable with the situation anyway, or whether there was some real attitude because the crew knew how I'd got the upgrade. But thereafter I was careful not to give that CC any specific future flight details.
I also know someone who flew regularly with a colleague who had some sort of connection to a captain, whose word was always good enough to get the two of them upgraded into CW whenever they flew (and whoever was the operating crew). It would be done at the check-in desk; the colleague would ask the check-in agent to consult a note in the booking, a phone call would be made, and CW boarding passes would appear even though the booking was in economy. I saw this once with my own eyes; it happened so reliably to my friend that it was clearly not an occasional fluke.
From the other side of the fence, I've also been a normal CW passenger on flights where, after boarding was complete, the cabin crew have moved passengers into empty CW seats. I know there can be all sorts of legitimate reasons for this, but the body language and the way that the passengers interact with the crew thereafter usually strongly suggest that they are staff or similar, and have been upgraded for no reason other than connections. That's not simple luck or good fortune.
I suspect that none of us begrudges anyone a genuine operational upgrade on a legitimate basis, or by way of service recovery, or to recognise a genuinely important customer - but this is not what this type of upgrade is.
And - with similar recognition that my perception might be skewed after such an incident - there is sometimes a correlation between such an upgrade and the general performance of the cabin crew concerned. One particularly memorable incident, on a LHR-JFK, was followed by the most dire CW flight that we have ever had (which was a real come-down as we were supposed to have been on an LCY-JFK which was canx at the last minute).
Moreover, we know from experience on the other side of the Atlantic that it can be very easy for this to go way too far. So I think that there are legitimate grounds for concern about this.
Apr 9, 2016, 4:09 am
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I certainty wouldn't say this to a customer who asked me about someone being moved, I would do my best to explain the reason and as said with the FLY issues I think that this will be happening more often.
I still stand by my opionion that it isn't any other customers business, you wouldn't question someone being moved to a better seat in a theatre, I know people are curious and that's why if appropriate and time permitting I will happily give an explanation?
Apr 9, 2016, 4:22 am
#71
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London Heathrow
Programs: British Airways Executive Club
Posts: 719
I didn't realise that in the opinion of some posters on this forum that politely telling someone that moving people for an operational reason is the equivalent of turning a blind eye to child abuse. Wow, definitely true what is said that 2016 has become the year that everyone has an opinion and is offended by everything.
Apr 9, 2016, 5:04 am
#72
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,690
I'm grateful I now understand that there may be a genuine issue whereby folks who would in some way be entitled to an upgrade aren't getting it because of FLY, because I have been seeing this on almost every recent CE flight I have been on, remarkably enough, when I never did for decades.
If I were BA cabin crew I would not even bother to explain why someone was moved. Because it is nobody's business. Many things happen while we're travelling that not everybody gets.
Apr 9, 2016, 5:11 am
#73
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I never get lathered up about this as I don't consider it my business. The best way to guarantee a J seat is to pay for it.
However it needs to be done in a professional way, ideally before boarding.
Sometimes it does happen though, in the days when I used BA I was twice upgraded from J to F on the plane heading to Johannesburg.
However it needs to be done in a professional way, ideally before boarding.
Sometimes it does happen though, in the days when I used BA I was twice upgraded from J to F on the plane heading to Johannesburg.
Apr 9, 2016, 5:24 am
#74
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
Programs: BAEC Silver, Miles and More(FTL), IHG(Platinum), Accor, HHonors(Diamond), SPG, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 5,909
There is an old old adage which is true in every business. its not what you know but who you know.
Many many years ago I lived in Dubai and knew loads and loads of cabin crew and pilots, we all lived in the same area and we socialized together.
I rarely got on an EK flight when I did not know a crew member and was always looked after in some way. Sometimes I got a business class meal brought to me economy, sometimes I got a bottle of champers to take home...
I knew I was being upgraded on one flight to DXB and my UK boss decided to fly with me. To this day he thinks it was his flying that got us both upgraded that day.
On the other hand, this has also lead to situations where other PAX have felt that cabin crew have been particularly rude to me. They did not know that I knew the crew member, so when she threw my drinks and me and told me I could mix it myself ....
It happens. Yes if I see it happen I get aggrieved when I see others getting bumped up and I wonder why not me. But I soon get over it.
If you really want special treatment, get to know some crew very well. Its difficult on such a big fleet but....
Many many years ago I lived in Dubai and knew loads and loads of cabin crew and pilots, we all lived in the same area and we socialized together.
I rarely got on an EK flight when I did not know a crew member and was always looked after in some way. Sometimes I got a business class meal brought to me economy, sometimes I got a bottle of champers to take home...
I knew I was being upgraded on one flight to DXB and my UK boss decided to fly with me. To this day he thinks it was his flying that got us both upgraded that day.
On the other hand, this has also lead to situations where other PAX have felt that cabin crew have been particularly rude to me. They did not know that I knew the crew member, so when she threw my drinks and me and told me I could mix it myself ....
It happens. Yes if I see it happen I get aggrieved when I see others getting bumped up and I wonder why not me. But I soon get over it.
If you really want special treatment, get to know some crew very well. Its difficult on such a big fleet but....
Apr 9, 2016, 5:40 am
#75
Join Date: Aug 2015
Programs: EY - Gold, BA - Gold
Posts: 512
I didn't realise that in the opinion of some posters on this forum that politely telling someone that moving people for an operational reason is the equivalent of turning a blind eye to child abuse. Wow, definitely true what is said that 2016 has become the year that everyone has an opinion and is offended by everything.