Iberia/BA nightmare
#91
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,200
Thanks for the update.
Sounds very similar to my own experience. When I tried to rebook my flights using Iberia’s website I did track the payments or attempts to pay - each transaction showed up in my Amex account as “payment pending” and they stayed in this purgatory state for a few days before disappearing altogether.
Sounds very similar to my own experience. When I tried to rebook my flights using Iberia’s website I did track the payments or attempts to pay - each transaction showed up in my Amex account as “payment pending” and they stayed in this purgatory state for a few days before disappearing altogether.
#92
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,721
The promised update.
I told my parents upon arriving back in the UK to check their email and phone up their CC provider who confirmed no payment had gone through.
My dad who isn't very good at anything to do with internet or email, didn't check his account, but it would appear Iberia did email him advising to contact them.
I think it would help in this scenario if Iberia/BA cancelled any trace of the booking along with the confirmation code so that if this was missed, the passenger concerned would be aware of a problem before arriving at the airport and would have the opportunity to address it.
As it is, I suspect on their next trip, a lot more attention will hopefully be paid to confirmation emails...
Thanks all for your input though.
I told my parents upon arriving back in the UK to check their email and phone up their CC provider who confirmed no payment had gone through.
My dad who isn't very good at anything to do with internet or email, didn't check his account, but it would appear Iberia did email him advising to contact them.
I think it would help in this scenario if Iberia/BA cancelled any trace of the booking along with the confirmation code so that if this was missed, the passenger concerned would be aware of a problem before arriving at the airport and would have the opportunity to address it.
As it is, I suspect on their next trip, a lot more attention will hopefully be paid to confirmation emails...
Thanks all for your input though.
I would be minded to pursue this if I were you, as a customer service matter more than anything, and notwithstanding your dad's failure to see the email from IB.
I would hope (but can't be sure) that a reasonable 'gesture of goodwill' would be offered eventually. The three key points for me are:
1) To any ordinary consumer, 'confirmed' means 'ticketed' and thus the confirmation webpage, confirmation number and massive tick in the email entitled 'booking confirmation' that your parents saw give the very strong impression that the booking was in fact confirmed and a-ok (even if the detail of the email stated the ticket was pending).
2) The booking looked a-ok in MMB throughout.
3) BA confirmed seats on the phone, again with no indication anything was wrong.
Others may poo-poo this, but I have every sympathy for your parents in this situation. Personally I'm of the view that airlines should not tell consumers that a booking is confirmed until the booking is ticketed. Plainly, in ordinary language (rather than IATA language), a booking for which payment has failed is not a confirmed booking.
Last edited by Ldnn1; Apr 13, 2016 at 3:16 pm
#93
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Brasil/Spain (but a heart in Scotland)
Programs: Star Alliance Gold, Iberia Oro, SkyTeam - Elite Plus, Le Club Accor - Platinum
Posts: 408
Thanks for the update, Jack. So do you intend to try and claim some recompense?
I would be minded to pursue this if I were you, as a customer service matter more than anything, and notwithstanding your dad's failure to see the email from IB.
I would hope (but can't be sure) that a reasonable 'gesture of goodwill' would be offered eventually. The three key points for me are:
1) To any ordinary consumer, 'confirmed' means 'ticketed' and thus the confirmation webpage, confirmation number and massive tick in the email entitled 'booking confirmation' that your parents saw give the very strong impression that the booking was in fact confirmed and a-ok (even if the detail of the email stated the ticket was pending).
2) The booking looked a-ok in MMB throughout.
3) BA confirmed seats on the phone, again with no indication anything was wrong.
Others may poo-poo this, but I have every sympathy for your parents in this situation. Personally I'm of the view that airlines should not tell consumers that a booking is confirmed until the booking is ticketed. Plainly, in ordinary language (rather than IATA language), a booking for which payment has failed is not a confirmed booking.
I would be minded to pursue this if I were you, as a customer service matter more than anything, and notwithstanding your dad's failure to see the email from IB.
I would hope (but can't be sure) that a reasonable 'gesture of goodwill' would be offered eventually. The three key points for me are:
1) To any ordinary consumer, 'confirmed' means 'ticketed' and thus the confirmation webpage, confirmation number and massive tick in the email entitled 'booking confirmation' that your parents saw give the very strong impression that the booking was in fact confirmed and a-ok (even if the detail of the email stated the ticket was pending).
2) The booking looked a-ok in MMB throughout.
3) BA confirmed seats on the phone, again with no indication anything was wrong.
Others may poo-poo this, but I have every sympathy for your parents in this situation. Personally I'm of the view that airlines should not tell consumers that a booking is confirmed until the booking is ticketed. Plainly, in ordinary language (rather than IATA language), a booking for which payment has failed is not a confirmed booking.
Thanks for the reply.
I think they would like to pursue it, but are of the view it probably isn't worth the hassle of doing so.
Personally I'd be inclined to take it further, as you say, from a customer service perspective. Clearly whilst my dad should have been more astute at checking email, there were no other warning signs of a problem which the average passenger could reasonably (in my view) be expected to see.
The booking was made in October 2015, and right up until departure MMB looked completely normal. I don't understand in these cases why MMB doesn't display a warning message, or is cancelled/deleted altogether - if this were to occur, there'd be little doubt in anyone's mind a problem existed, and it could as such at least be resolved without the embarrassment/stress of turning up at the airport and running into problems.
I also think at the very least something should have popped up when they phoned BA to sort out seats the night before the flight. The thing they keep saying is 'but they issued us a confirmation code' - again, being the average passenger they don't understand that this means nothing if you haven't been ticketed...
#94
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I'm presently encountering a similar BA/IB Avios booking nightmare...
Bottom line: previously ticketed Avios booking on Ibera has been cancelled by BA twice, and they are unable to reinstate the flights or provide any meaningful alternative options.
Made a Avios booking on BA.com LIS-MAD-SJU on IB J a couple of weeks ago. Immediately received confirmation email with ticket number. Contacted IB for seat assignments and subsequently received a separate confirmation email from IB (with same ticket number). The next day I went to the IB webpage to print the itinerary, and there was a note the reservation had been cancelled. Contacting IB, they said BA had cancelled the reservation. I called BA Executive Club who confirmed the reservation had been inadvertently cancelled by the system because a reference code was not stored in the right field. The BA agent restored the segments (there was still award availability at the time for both segments) and sent another confirmation email (containing the same original ticket number). The agent told me that this is a known issue with IB awards booked online and that I should have "known better than to book on BA.com" and should have called in to book this award and paid the extra booking fee. His tone was rather condescending, but he assured me that the booking had been fixed and this wouldn't happen again. I followed-up with Iberia who confirmed the reservation looked good on their side. Over the next several days, I watched the reservation closely on Iberia.com, BA.com, and setup EF alerts for my seats (in case they were vacated) and the reservation remained intact.
I spent the next week without internet access trekking in Nepal. Upon my return I noticed I had received an EF seat alert that my seats on both IB flights were now available. I was unable to pull up the reservation on Iberia.com (received the same cancellation message) and calling Iberia they confirmed the reservation had been cancelled by BA. Calling BA, they confirmed the reservation had been cancelled "automatically by the system" for the exact same reason as before (a particular field in the booking was missing a code). They have attempted to have the segments restored with Iberia, but have not yet been successful. For three days, BA has told me to check back the next day but so far nothing has changed. As these flights under a week away, I am running out of time and patience. Yesterday, the BA agent I spoke with (coincidentally, he was the first agent I spoke with over week ago who was supposed to have fixed this in the first place) suggested that I should start "exploring other options" and that BA could refund my ticket but wasn't obligated to accommodate me on other airlines (AA has routing that would work, but currently has no award space available). I was told to check back again in another day to see if IB had opened up space (doubtful considering the MAD-SJU flight is now J0).
I have now spent over 6 hours trying to resolve this issue (mostly spent on hold) without any success. Just looking to see what my rights are in this instance, as I cannot get a straight answer from the Executive Club agents. Is BA obligated to get me from LIS-SJU (even on an offline carrier) or can they just cancel my ticket and refund the Avios/taxes without my approval? Does this qualify for EC/261? If so, do I need to physically show up at LIS and be denied boarding for my originally ticketed IB flight? I have found award space on TP/UA that I can book, but I'd like to know exactly what BA's obligations are in this circumstance.
-FlyerBeek
Bottom line: previously ticketed Avios booking on Ibera has been cancelled by BA twice, and they are unable to reinstate the flights or provide any meaningful alternative options.
Made a Avios booking on BA.com LIS-MAD-SJU on IB J a couple of weeks ago. Immediately received confirmation email with ticket number. Contacted IB for seat assignments and subsequently received a separate confirmation email from IB (with same ticket number). The next day I went to the IB webpage to print the itinerary, and there was a note the reservation had been cancelled. Contacting IB, they said BA had cancelled the reservation. I called BA Executive Club who confirmed the reservation had been inadvertently cancelled by the system because a reference code was not stored in the right field. The BA agent restored the segments (there was still award availability at the time for both segments) and sent another confirmation email (containing the same original ticket number). The agent told me that this is a known issue with IB awards booked online and that I should have "known better than to book on BA.com" and should have called in to book this award and paid the extra booking fee. His tone was rather condescending, but he assured me that the booking had been fixed and this wouldn't happen again. I followed-up with Iberia who confirmed the reservation looked good on their side. Over the next several days, I watched the reservation closely on Iberia.com, BA.com, and setup EF alerts for my seats (in case they were vacated) and the reservation remained intact.
I spent the next week without internet access trekking in Nepal. Upon my return I noticed I had received an EF seat alert that my seats on both IB flights were now available. I was unable to pull up the reservation on Iberia.com (received the same cancellation message) and calling Iberia they confirmed the reservation had been cancelled by BA. Calling BA, they confirmed the reservation had been cancelled "automatically by the system" for the exact same reason as before (a particular field in the booking was missing a code). They have attempted to have the segments restored with Iberia, but have not yet been successful. For three days, BA has told me to check back the next day but so far nothing has changed. As these flights under a week away, I am running out of time and patience. Yesterday, the BA agent I spoke with (coincidentally, he was the first agent I spoke with over week ago who was supposed to have fixed this in the first place) suggested that I should start "exploring other options" and that BA could refund my ticket but wasn't obligated to accommodate me on other airlines (AA has routing that would work, but currently has no award space available). I was told to check back again in another day to see if IB had opened up space (doubtful considering the MAD-SJU flight is now J0).
I have now spent over 6 hours trying to resolve this issue (mostly spent on hold) without any success. Just looking to see what my rights are in this instance, as I cannot get a straight answer from the Executive Club agents. Is BA obligated to get me from LIS-SJU (even on an offline carrier) or can they just cancel my ticket and refund the Avios/taxes without my approval? Does this qualify for EC/261? If so, do I need to physically show up at LIS and be denied boarding for my originally ticketed IB flight? I have found award space on TP/UA that I can book, but I'd like to know exactly what BA's obligations are in this circumstance.
-FlyerBeek
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
I would have thought, EC 261/2004 aside, you have a contract with BA and it is their job to act with reasonable skill in upholding their end of the bargain per Consumer Rights Act. I am also not convinced the contract of carriage allows the carrier to cancel the ticket unilaterally. But please read it.
Did you pay on a UK-based credit card? Did the cash element exceed Ł100?
Did you pay on a UK-based credit card? Did the cash element exceed Ł100?
#96
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I would have thought, EC 261/2004 aside, you have a contract with BA and it is their job to act with reasonable skill in upholding their end of the bargain per Consumer Rights Act. I am also not convinced the contract of carriage allows the carrier to cancel the ticket unilaterally. But please read it.
Did you pay on a UK-based credit card? Did the cash element exceed Ł100?
Did you pay on a UK-based credit card? Did the cash element exceed Ł100?
Ticked was paid for using a U.S.-issued credit card. Yes, the cash (tax) element exceeded Ł100 (it was $281 USD).
-FlyerBeek
#97
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,126
I have reviewed BA's conditions of carriage. I cannot find anything that directly speaks to this situation. Per the remedies listed for schedule changes, delays, and cancellations the first two options don't apply (as BA does not serve SJU) and the last two remedies are either an involuntary refund (seems the direction BA is heading here) or denied boarding compensation (which I'm not sure applies in this instance and requires me to meet all check-in and boarding requirements).
Ticked was paid for using a U.S.-issued credit card. Yes, the cash (tax) element exceeded Ł100 (it was $281 USD).
-FlyerBeek
Ticked was paid for using a U.S.-issued credit card. Yes, the cash (tax) element exceeded Ł100 (it was $281 USD).
-FlyerBeek
Realistically, you should take the TP/UA option, however unfair this sounds because I do believe you were wronged by BA here but I can’t imagine you being able to sort it out before the date you want to fly.
You could of course buy a ticket from BA for cash and then claim this back from BA and take them to court over it. You may well win, but life is too short.
#98
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WAS/TYO
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As best I can tell, the cancellation occurred 10-11 days prior to departure, but the only proof I have is an ExpertFlyer seat alert email. Not sure BA would honor that wrt an EU261 claim.
Hoping BA will offer a reasonable solution (restoration of original IB flights, accommodation on another OW carrier, or cancellation with full refund and EU261 compensation) without having to fight for it. So far, BA's response has been far from impressive.
-FlyerBeek
#99
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Mucci, BA
Posts: 10,103
It would be up to BA to prove that it was cancelled over 14 days before departure, not the other way around. They will know when exactly it was cancelled.
Do your flights not show up on Manage my Booking, but with a 'Cancelled' message?
I've had this happen to me more times than I'd care to remember. Thankfully I've always caught it early enough, and only once was there no Avios seat left (but got it released). But yes, completely ridiculous this keeps happening and phone agents have never shown any concern (or apology) - GGL team to boot.
Do your flights not show up on Manage my Booking, but with a 'Cancelled' message?
I've had this happen to me more times than I'd care to remember. Thankfully I've always caught it early enough, and only once was there no Avios seat left (but got it released). But yes, completely ridiculous this keeps happening and phone agents have never shown any concern (or apology) - GGL team to boot.
#100
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,015
This is written under Article 2 ("Definitions"):
(j) "denied boarding" means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2), except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation;
I think it would be easier to go after BA, claiming that BA hasn't delivered your booked tickets. However, I'd also show up at the airport and see what happens.The regulation states that the operating airline needs to inform the passenger of the cancellation at least two weeks in advance. If the airline cancels a flight three weeks in advance but doesn't inform the passenger until one week in advance, then compensation would still be due. However, this is not a case about a flight cancellation but about ticket cancellation which probably leads to denied boarding.
#101
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WAS/TYO
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP (3MM), DL PM, BONVOY TITANIUM, HYATT GLOBALIST, HILTON DIAMOND, IHG DIAMOND AMB, et al
Posts: 5,906
Do your flights not show up on Manage my Booking, but with a 'Cancelled' message?
I've had this happen to me more times than I'd care to remember. Thankfully I've always caught it early enough, and only once was there no Avios seat left (but got it released). But yes, completely ridiculous this keeps happening and phone agents have never shown any concern (or apology) - GGL team to boot.
I've had this happen to me more times than I'd care to remember. Thankfully I've always caught it early enough, and only once was there no Avios seat left (but got it released). But yes, completely ridiculous this keeps happening and phone agents have never shown any concern (or apology) - GGL team to boot.
Really quite shameful this this is still a relatively common issue, once caught they cannot fix it properly the first time, and then they leave the traveler hanging with no viable options. Latest update from BA is that they need another (fourth) day to work with Iberia and the OneWorld liaison desk. Was supposed to have a final decision by now on the way forward. TP/UA option not ideal as it departs a day earlier, requires overnight en route, and more than doubles the travel time.
-FlyerBeek
#102
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WAS/TYO
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Posts: 5,906
Follow-up: only option offered by Executive Club was cancellation of ticket with full refund of Avios/taxes/fees. This was notified less than 4 days prior to originally ticketed departure flight despite previous assurances from BA over each of the last 4 days that they would find a solution. Was told to follow-up with Customer Relations regarding further compensation/EC261. Can’t wait to hear what their response will be a month from now.
Lesson learned: buyer beware when redeeming BA Avios for IB flights online. BA apparently feels no obligation to uphold their end of the Conditions of Carriage.
-FlyerBeek
Lesson learned: buyer beware when redeeming BA Avios for IB flights online. BA apparently feels no obligation to uphold their end of the Conditions of Carriage.
-FlyerBeek
#103
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
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I wouldn't accept that, if it were me. I'd ask them to keep the booking as it is (i.e. don't refund) and seek redress via CR. Accepting a refund, in my book, shows you are OK with that resolution - and BA could (well, would, it's BA after all) state that there no longer is a contract of carriage.
#104
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I wouldn't accept that, if it were me. I'd ask them to keep the booking as it is (i.e. don't refund) and seek redress via CR. Accepting a refund, in my book, shows you are OK with that resolution - and BA could (well, would, it's BA after all) state that there no longer is a contract of carriage.
-FlyerBeek