B77W and A380 watch: second-hand frames

Old Mar 5, 16, 11:07 am
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B77W and A380 watch: second-hand frames

With WW revealing talks on 2nd hand B77W frames was more advanced than the A380, I stumbled across an obscure tweet. (Caution: could be meaningless).

"Sources suggesting that a deal to close an additional 2 leased B77W airframes for IAG will be concluded this week... Interesting..." posted by @NDH37087

Question is where will the frames come from? Kenya Airways handed its unwanted compatable 77Ws to TK.

Air India, maybe?

Well extra 77W frames will come in handy. I reckon 6 more of these and around 5 more A380s will support long-haul expansion at BA until 2020 alongside arrival of B787-8/9/10s and A350-1000s.

As long as the 2nd hand aircraft are identical to the current fleet product-wise.

Last edited by SinoBritAsia; Mar 5, 16 at 11:13 am
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Old Mar 5, 16, 11:27 am
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One would hope the leased aircraft would have the same product, it would make sense.

BA don't own all of their 77Ws that they currently fly, a few of them are leased and the onboard product is exactly the same.
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Old Mar 5, 16, 11:29 am
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Only two frames, seems like a painstaking process just to get relatively few aircraft. I suppose it must be working for them though.

The A380 seems like it will be even more difficult to come by, given it sounds like MH are keeping theirs now...
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Old Mar 5, 16, 12:01 pm
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I hope, if they do it... They do it properly.

And we don't end up in the A320 situation again...
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Old Mar 5, 16, 12:04 pm
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Originally Posted by BingBongBoy View Post
I hope, if they do it... They do it properly.

And we don't end up in the A320 situation again...
What 'situation' is that? Just that they are second hand mid lifers? They seem to have no more irrops than the smaller and new a380 fleet.
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Old Mar 5, 16, 12:23 pm
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Originally Posted by DFB_london View Post
What 'situation' is that? Just that they are second hand mid lifers? They seem to have no more irrops than the smaller and new a380 fleet.
From an operational point of view for the cabin, we ended up with so many different variations in locations, emergency equipment, layout, galley configurations etc. that it made it very difficult to keep on top of all the differences.

Hopefully, if these frames are acquired, they will not skim, and make the required changes to the LOPA and crew areas to make sure they are common in operation.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 2:17 am
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Originally Posted by BingBongBoy View Post
I hope, if they do it... They do it properly.

And we don't end up in the A320 situation again...
Was that the acquisition of the bmi birds, which had different layouts?
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Old Mar 6, 16, 10:45 am
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do you get the impression that BA are trying to make up time because they decided to enter fleet replacement late... Second hand air frames because they can't get new quick enough in the 777Ws. I accept the A380s might be slightly different in the fact if they had the cash they could get them relatively quick. Just a thought
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Old Mar 6, 16, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by adrian1980uk View Post
do you get the impression that BA are trying to make up time because they decided to enter fleet replacement late... Second hand air frames because they can't get new quick enough in the 777Ws. I accept the A380s might be slightly different in the fact if they had the cash they could get them relatively quick. Just a thought
777Ws seem to be very popular and the lead time is as you say long. To be honest BA fell over them rather than actively looking for them as part of the 787 late delivery compensation. I think they were more impressed with them than they originally thought they would be, and have done wonders on the SYD route.

The A380s are a different kettle of fish, too niche and overpriced. Not taking the options on offer and looking elswhere is probably a way to drive down the cost of aircraft which are on the margins of usefulness. BA are probably only after a couple to provide a bit of slack in the system.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 11:30 am
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Originally Posted by adrian1980uk View Post
do you get the impression that BA are trying to make up time because they decided to enter fleet replacement late...
Well, the 787 and a380 were both quite late. BA was also in pretty bad shape 5/6 years ago.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 11:42 am
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Originally Posted by destere View Post
Well, the 787 and a380 were both quite late. BA was also in pretty bad shape 5/6 years ago.
Even though they are in better shape now they plan to fly the 777s for 30 years.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 1:34 pm
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Originally Posted by antichef View Post
Was that the acquisition of the bmi birds, which had different layouts?
Yes, and before that the BMED frames before that. All with different cabin layouts and galley configs.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 1:42 pm
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On the Boeing website Jet Airways 77W's are up for sale or lease. Might be those.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 1:49 pm
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Originally Posted by kanderson1965 View Post
777Ws seem to be very popular and the lead time is as you say long. To be honest BA fell over them rather than actively looking for them as part of the 787 late delivery compensation. I think they were more impressed with them than they originally thought they would be, and have done wonders on the SYD route.

The A380s are a different kettle of fish, too niche and overpriced. Not taking the options on offer and looking elswhere is probably a way to drive down the cost of aircraft which are on the margins of usefulness. BA are probably only after a couple to provide a bit of slack in the system.
You forgot to say about the A380, extremely profitable on the right route.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by Behindthecurtain View Post
You forgot to say about the A380, extremely profitable on the right route.
True, the problem being there is only a finite number of "right routes" for this size of aircraft and as soon as you have enough to cover your needs plus a bit of contingency you would not be looking for more of them in a hurry, unlike the 777 which is a workhorse that can adapt to a variety of different routes.
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